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Old 03-28-2019, 03:29 PM
 
Location: DC
6,506 posts, read 6,426,164 times
Reputation: 3102

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2/3 of our steel comes from recycled steel. Facts are not squashy. That requires no coke.

Your pv comment is nonsense. The solar industry is growing at 50% per year.

Backup generation already exists.
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Old 03-28-2019, 04:48 PM
 
3,758 posts, read 3,481,917 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DCforever View Post
Over 2/3 of our steel comes from steel mini mills that don't use coke. No one is going to build a new integrated steel mill in the US so while the output of integrated plants might expand a little bit, it won't move the needle for coal.

Look up "net metering" Tesla and other owners can "bank" the energy from solar produced during the day for later use at night.

Is your name Rip van Winkle? Sudden uptick?
Coke production is upticking because of renewed demand from U.S. blast furnaces. In fact, some of them are starting to import coke to meet demand.

https://www.hellenicshippingnews.com...tarts-sources/

I am no expert on steel production, but everything I've read states that we are in a kind of steel renaissance and that is definitely affecting production of metallurgical coal (coke).
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Old 03-28-2019, 06:32 PM
 
Location: Eugene, Oregon
8,994 posts, read 2,939,193 times
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Originally Posted by Hemlock140 View Post
The city of Seattle now gets 1% of it's electricity from coal, but in the suburbs, Puget Sound Energy gets 1/3 of the electricity from a coal plant that it owns in Montana. Most days, here on the waterfront in Seattle we see a long train go by loaded with coal.

Every where those cars go, coal dust comes out of them and settles to the ground. Those who are unfortunate to live near the rail lines, have that poison constantly in their environment. In most cases, that coal does nothing to provide us with energy, because it's heading for seaports to be shipped to overseas customers. The land and water where it's extracted is ravaged and everyone along the routes pays a price and only the coal producers profit from it.
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Old 03-28-2019, 07:45 PM
 
2,606 posts, read 834,413 times
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Originally Posted by DCforever View Post
Save that picture for your grandchildren. It's will be nostalgic.
Haha, very true. Coal is dead, regardless of what BS Trump fed those poor, out of work miners.
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Old 03-28-2019, 10:41 PM
 
115 posts, read 37,407 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve McDonald View Post
Every where those cars go, coal dust comes out of them and settles to the ground. Those who are unfortunate to live near the rail lines, have that poison constantly in their environment. In most cases, that coal does nothing to provide us with energy, because it's heading for seaports to be shipped to overseas customers. The land and water where it's extracted is ravaged and everyone along the routes pays a price and only the coal producers profit from it.


We have a family farm on a very busy rail line in the Midwest where rail cars loaded with coal pass many times a day. The farm has been in the family for more than a CENTURY and you can't tell that coal has ever been transported on that rail line. The house is as white as ever and sits no more than 250 ft from the rails. The trees and grass are green, the fruit trees produce, the flowers I planted 5 years ago at the entrance bloom every year around Easter on schedule and not more than 75 ft. from the rail crossing.......calves come twice a year in the field next to the rail line.

You need to get out more because your description of what happens with a train carrying coal and its impact on the land/property around a rail line is NOT what our family has experienced for over a CENTURY. Five generations of families have lived, worked and recreated on that family farm..and continue to do so.

Last edited by CentralUSHomeowner; 03-28-2019 at 11:26 PM..
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Old 03-29-2019, 08:30 AM
 
3,758 posts, read 3,481,917 times
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Originally Posted by WMak70 View Post
Haha, very true. Coal is dead, regardless of what BS Trump fed those poor, out of work miners.
Haha very false. Coal is alive, regardless of what BS you read in some "green" publications.

https://www.eia.gov/coal/annual/

In 2017, coal production was up 6.4% year over year. Mine employment up 2.4%.
In 2018, there was a downtick in 2nd quarter, but general trend is recovery/upward.

The trend toward retooling coal fired electrical plants with natural gas is continuing, however, and right now coal and gas electrical production are basically neck-and-neck.
https://www.powermag.com/gas-may-be-...than-expected/

Gas is better for the environment than coal; it emits the least carbon of any fossil fuel. Given the continued success of natural gas fracking, as well as continuing exploitation of natural gas fields, probably NG is going to be with us for a long time to come, while coal declines.

But the decline is relative. We are still producing hundreds of millions of tons of coal, some exported and some consumed domestically, and this is going to continue for many years to come. No matter how competitive the alternative sources become, change won't come overnight.
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Old 03-29-2019, 08:50 AM
 
Location: Central Washington
921 posts, read 288,446 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoisite View Post
Wind and solar sure wouldn't win on the west coast and the mountain regions, or in the north. They can only be supplementary on a small scale. Very little wind to speak of and some areas can go for months with overcast skies. Further north you go in the winter there is little to no daylight at all, let alone actual sunlight. Here it's pretty much hydro all the way, enough electricity is produced that what doesn't get used domestically gets exported to western USA and other parts of Canada.
.
Solar and wind are both absolute losers in both of our areas. There are about 70-80 days a year (roughly mid-July through September) when solar has decent potential, by the first of November very low sun angles (on the very few days it shines at all) and moderate to very heavy snowfall make them all but worthless until mid-March at the earliest.
Eastern BC suffers the same winter temperature inversions eastern Washington and northern Idaho do, which creates a blanket of low clouds and freezing fog that can last for weeks. This also means wind turbines also produce nothing, at the time of year demand is highest.

Conditions for wind generation are best mid-spring through early summer, at the same time every dam on the Columbia and Snake are running near full nameplate capacity due to spring runoff. Wind power seems to work great when it's not really needed, and at times when demand is critical, it fails. As it did in January in North Dakota, and numerous times in South Australia over the past few years.

This article goes into the stupidity of replacing a very cheap, reliable, and dispatchable renewable source with wind. https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesco.../#5ece00b82f55

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve McDonald View Post
Every where those cars go, coal dust comes out of them and settles to the ground. Those who are unfortunate to live near the rail lines, have that poison constantly in their environment. In most cases, that coal does nothing to provide us with energy, because it's heading for seaports to be shipped to overseas customers. The land and water where it's extracted is ravaged and everyone along the routes pays a price and only the coal producers profit from it.
After each car is loaded, BNSF sprays a sort of glue over the top of the coal, to stop dust. Then at their yard in Pasco, every car is treated again. Here is a loaded train leaving a Wyoming mine.



Dozens of trains every day use these tracks, at times over 4,500 loaded cars per day. Despite the huge amount of coal being shipped, there is no sign of coal dust anywhere. All of the concrete ties are still gray, and all of the ballast is clean. It seems like if dust was a problem this very high traffic area would show signs of it.
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Old 03-29-2019, 10:35 AM
 
Location: DC
6,506 posts, read 6,426,164 times
Reputation: 3102
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Old 03-29-2019, 10:49 AM
 
Location: DC
6,506 posts, read 6,426,164 times
Reputation: 3102
Quote:
Originally Posted by dozerbear View Post
Solar and wind are both absolute losers in both of our areas.
Washington State has 1,700 turbines with about 3,100 megawatts of capacity.
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Old 03-29-2019, 12:28 PM
 
Location: Minnysoda
8,574 posts, read 8,493,849 times
Reputation: 5145
Quote:
Originally Posted by DCforever View Post
Washington State has 1,700 turbines with about 3,100 megawatts of capacity.
and they still burn more coal then wind......The vast majority of power generated in Washington state is from Hydro....

https://www.eia.gov/state/?sid=WA#tabs-4
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