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Old 04-02-2019, 04:54 AM
 
Location: The Driftless Area, WI
2,769 posts, read 1,034,882 times
Reputation: 5940

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The following is a quote from a well written, exhaustively researched and referenced article. It's a longish read-- probably a little too much for the types who can summarize their knowledge of science & economics in three word slogans painted on a poster board and held aloft on a stick at a "Stop the Pipeline" demonstration" (which they travelled to in a gas-burning automobile or bus).


"More than a decade ago, Google focused its vaunted engineering talent on a project called “RE<C,” seeking to develop renewable energy cheaper than coal. After the project was canceled in 2014, Google’s lead engineers wrote: “Incremental improvements to existing [energy] technologies aren’t enough; we need something truly disruptive... We don’t have the answers.”[97] Those engineers rediscovered the kinds of physics and scale realities highlighted in this paper."

https://www.manhattan-institute.org/...ear-impossible

The author addresses the problems of scale and limitations imposed by the laws of physics preventing the dream of a switch to alternative energy sources. He doesn't even start on the sever environmental consequences of habitat destruction for large scale solar farms or the huge effect on bird, bat and insect populations of wind farms.
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Old 04-02-2019, 08:11 AM
 
Location: Southern Colorado
3,558 posts, read 1,748,347 times
Reputation: 4567
it is pretty simple in some ways. Solar and wind will do little until we realize huge, cheap battery technology to store the power they unpredictably harvest.

Imagine if your grid power was unpredictable - that power was available far less than half the time. We would all yell for the restoration of reliable power.

We used to make iron batteries that lasted for decades. The EPA shut that down according to my readings. Is iron less environmentally friendly than lead?
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Old 04-02-2019, 08:48 AM
 
Location: Somewhere in northern Alabama
17,739 posts, read 53,869,694 times
Reputation: 30005
Quote:
Originally Posted by ColoGuy View Post
it is pretty simple in some ways. Solar and wind will do little until we realize huge, cheap battery technology to store the power they unpredictably harvest.

Imagine if your grid power was unpredictable - that power was available far less than half the time. We would all yell for the restoration of reliable power.

We used to make iron batteries that lasted for decades. The EPA shut that down according to my readings. Is iron less environmentally friendly than lead?
Iron batteries aka Edison cells self-discharged at an unacceptable rate. I studied about them when writing a book about a trolley system that used them in a booster station. No conspiracy there except the laws of physics.
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Old 04-02-2019, 10:40 AM
 
Location: The Driftless Area, WI
2,769 posts, read 1,034,882 times
Reputation: 5940
Quote:
Originally Posted by DCforever View Post
There is 20 Gigawatts of wind power in Texas. They don't seem to be having many problems.

.

Think again https://www.offthegridnews.com/grid-...dicted-summer/
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Old 04-02-2019, 11:55 AM
 
Location: Minnysoda
8,574 posts, read 8,493,849 times
Reputation: 5145
Quote:
Originally Posted by DCforever View Post
There is 20 Gigawatts of wind power in Texas. They don't seem to be having many problems.

Don't worry about grid reliability. Engineers will keep you liberal arts majors safe.

Iron batteries have been largely discontinued because they are uneconomic. The last group I heard of working with iron batteries was Westinghouse. They are bankrupt. Lithium has much better energy density.
In the meantime ERCOT is getting ready for short supplies this Summer

https://www.powermag.com/ercot-warns...supply-crunch/

https://www.utilitydive.com/news/erc...is-sum/549849/

And who doesn't remember they emergency back in '08 before they installed the Wind power they have now....

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...49522920080228
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Old 04-02-2019, 12:58 PM
 
Location: DC
6,505 posts, read 6,426,164 times
Reputation: 3102
Texas is tight because underlying demand is increasing. They will be fine. Some additional wind and pv resources will shore up supply.
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Old 04-02-2019, 06:42 PM
 
Location: The Driftless Area, WI
2,769 posts, read 1,034,882 times
Reputation: 5940
Re: batteries-- "The annual output of Tesla’s Gigafactory, the world’s largest battery factory, could store three minutes’ worth of annual U.S. electricity demand. It would require 1,000 years of production to make enough batteries for two days’ worth of U.S. electricity demand. Meanwhile, 50–100 pounds of materials are mined, moved, and processed for every pound of battery produced." https://www.manhattan-institute.org/...ear-impossible


"Battery electrochemistry is NOT a ‘new’ invention like semiconductors in 1949. Nor does it follow Moore’s law as warmunists might wish....
...Nanotechnology enabled LIC is the only plausible EV option on the present technical horizon. It is truly the only New Hope. But like the rest of the Star Wars saga, it presently exists in another galaxy far far away." https://wattsupwiththat.com/2018/11/...hope-followup/


This article is written by a an active researcher in new battery technology. Both articles are well worth the read if you want to form an informed opinion on the role, plausibility & future of alternative energy technology.
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Old 04-03-2019, 05:39 AM
 
Location: DC
6,505 posts, read 6,426,164 times
Reputation: 3102
I remember lots of "studies" predicting the success or failure of new technology. One of the more humorous ones was the forecast for the original HP scientific calculator. ADL suggested an ultimate market of about 50 thousand total calculators.
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Old 04-03-2019, 04:43 PM
 
Location: Southern Colorado
3,558 posts, read 1,748,347 times
Reputation: 4567
After all my naysaying, I still think wind and solar have a possibly bright future. When we can build acres of batteries for about 1/4 what battery energy storage currently costs. Solar will also need to bring the installation costs down.
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Old 04-05-2019, 04:25 PM
 
Location: Somewhere in northern Alabama
17,739 posts, read 53,869,694 times
Reputation: 30005
MOD NOTE:

I just deleted a bunch of petty bickering off-topic whinging posts. Participants in those urination distance matches now have a new rule until they can learn to behave. Any further post in this thread over the next two weeks that uses the word "you" will be deleted and an infraction point given. I don't care if you have the answer to world hunger and free energy, ANY part of the post that gets personal will cause it to be deleted and a "here's yer sign" point awarded. Use the word "you" elsewhere in the forum at your own peril.
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