Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Green Living
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Thread summary:

Green living: American made clothes, recycle old computers, consumer purchasing, cheap energy, market.

Closed Thread Start New Thread
 
Old 05-23-2008, 11:14 AM
 
Location: In a room above Mr. Charrington's shop
2,916 posts, read 11,049,444 times
Reputation: 1765

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by mommabear2 View Post
+/- 85,000 sq ft. . Wal-mart manages to pack their stores in with +/- 85,000 sq ft of unnecessary items (you can't compare mom and pop stores/whole foods, it doesn't even come close) - (buying their new clothing is not essential - you could go to secondhand store for that... which, is green... buying new clothing made in China, not green). They cater to America's need to buy, buy, buy... (doesn't the USA have a 2% savings rate? The lowest of any industrialized nation - yup, we buy too many "essentials"). I mean, come on, mass consumerism (or endorsing it) is NOT green. There's greener choices for essentials.

I can see if one lives in the sticks that Wal-mart might be necessary. I'm sure there's some communities that they have helped, but when a company gets really big... their environmental impact gets bigger - more land is taken for buildings, more energy is used for basic operations, more products are produced to fill the shelves (which helps the economy of multiple countries BUT at the expense of the environment). I'm not saying we should boycott all big companies but by their very nature they consume more and pollute more - those of us who support these companies become part of the equation.

I like my mom and pop stores - are they green? Compared to Wal-mart... yes. For one, the stores I frequent carry food etc. that's locally manufactured, that's hard to do. Another reason, they consume less energy in day-to-day operations, they are in smaller buildings (how many bulldozers does it take to knock down/clear the area of a Wal-mart building).

Being green takes effort - that means: buying less, buying local, buying second hand, using less energy directly/indirectly, not purchasing/reduce purchasing products that are taxing on the environment, etc. - Wal-mart is not the embodiment of any of these things.
Bump! Nuff said. <-- Walmart even tries to own that guy.

 
Old 05-23-2008, 11:54 AM
 
Location: CA
2,464 posts, read 6,453,437 times
Reputation: 2641
Quote:
Originally Posted by cre8 View Post
Bump! Nuff said. <-- Walmart even tries to own that guy.
Thanks - I'm glad I'm not the only one who cares about the environment.
 
Old 05-23-2008, 01:56 PM
 
Location: Central Texas
20,958 posts, read 45,231,296 times
Reputation: 24738
Moderator cut: edit: again, asking everyone not to fan the flames

FWIW, I'm an EcoBroker, which means that I studied (and continue to study) various ways of "living green" from the ground up, and encourage people (don't demand - as I said earlier, all that does is put people off of doing what I wish they would) to improve their houses to be more ecologically sound and sustainable ("green" is pretty darned meaningless, when you come right down to it) on a daily basis, showing them smaller ways that they can make their homes more environmentally "correct" (as of this writing) and at the same time improve their pocketbook. If I were to berate them the way some on this thread berate Walmart, I'd be convincing them not only not to do the things that they can do to move towards environmental sustainability, I'd be convincing them that there's no way in heck they want to have anything to do with fanatics like me. Not my goal at all.

I've been living green, in one fashion or another, for at least the last 40 years, and in some ways, consciously, since I was a little girl - my parents brought me up back in the 1950's to think about such things in the terms of "but what if everybody did it" when, say, I wanted to stop by the roadside and pick flowers. They taught me not to litter using the same technique. They taught me to think about our impact on the environment when being green wasn't "cool".

So, just because I don't froth at the mouth at the very idea of Walmart doesn't mean that I don't care about the environment. To think that it does, and that one's attitude towards Walmart should be an unthinking anaethema in order to establish one's "green" credentials . . . well, it just boggles the mind.

Last edited by riveree; 05-23-2008 at 09:50 PM..
 
Old 05-23-2008, 03:46 PM
 
Location: CA
2,464 posts, read 6,453,437 times
Reputation: 2641
Texashorselady,

That post was for cre8 - not to put down anyone. If someone took it as a put down, my apologies.
Moderator cut: edit: let's let it go


Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasHorseLady View Post
So, just because I don't froth at the mouth at the very idea of Walmart doesn't mean that I don't care about the environment. To think that it does, and that one's attitude towards Walmart should be an unthinking anaethema in order to establish one's "green" credentials . . . well, it just boggles the mind.
Good for you on being an EcoBroker - never heard of it, maybe I need one...

Anyway, I know that you try to be "green" TexasHorseLady - you've expressed your lifestyle before, but what's really irritating to me is anyone makes it seem like what we do, what we buy, and where we buy it has NO impact on the Earth whatsoever. ALL OF US IMPACT THE EARTH in some way, shape or form - biologically it is impossible for us not to. Some of us have a bigger impact than others of course.

There's various ranges of green living, one can be a little environmentally responsible... just enough where it's not inconvenient... or we can go that extra mile. To me, "going that extra mile" (on top of the obvious) means withholding dollars from companies who are too intrusive on the environment. If 85,000 sq ft of retail space isn't environmentally intrusive (not to mention all the massive amounts of products they sell), I don't know what is. If we are talking about shopping at a place that promotes green living then I don't why we are even talking about Wal-mart...

Last edited by riveree; 05-23-2008 at 09:52 PM..
 
Old 05-23-2008, 04:37 PM
j1n j1n started this thread
 
Location: Southeast of the Northwest Territories
1,245 posts, read 4,646,396 times
Reputation: 468
this is from my original post...
what are some of the reasons for staying away from the big "marts" as a way to be greener? I assume that a big reason has to be patronizing local businesses as opposed to big business that long-distance trucks everything in? Any other reasons? And are K-Mart, Target, etc considered as big of offenders as WALMART? Are there any "marts" out there making a concerted effort to do right? Or is that even possible?
 
Old 05-23-2008, 04:52 PM
j1n j1n started this thread
 
Location: Southeast of the Northwest Territories
1,245 posts, read 4,646,396 times
Reputation: 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by mommabear2 View Post
There's various ranges of green living, one can be a little environmentally responsible... just enough where it's not inconvenient... or we can go that extra mile. To me, "going that extra mile" (on top of the obvious) means withholding dollars from companies who are too intrusive on the environment. If 85,000 sq ft of retail space isn't environmentally intrusive (not to mention all the massive amounts of products they sell), I don't know what is.
I agree with the premise of being environmentally responsible. Or at the very least not being irresponsible. But where is the line drawn? And who decides what "too intrusive" is? There are "marts" that are making strides towards being much more environmentally responsible. Yes, they are an enormous store with a large physical footprint. But what about malls? Football fields? Stadiums? Airports? What about the parking lots for all those places? And I'm a little lost on how or why a store should cut down on the products that they sell. Maybe it's because I live sorta "out in the sticks" that my local walmart seems to carry a good selection of needed stuff. Maybe not all needed by me, but maybe by someone else. For instance...if I like a metal stirring spoons, my next door neighbor likes plastic ones, and the next guy down wants a wooden spoon...do the stores just decide to carry one? Or do they just stock one kind? And if they don't have what Mr Smith next door wants, what does he do? Order online from some gigantic warehouse plopped down out in the middle of yet more formerly pristine forest? It just goes on and on.
 
Old 05-23-2008, 05:05 PM
 
Location: CA
2,464 posts, read 6,453,437 times
Reputation: 2641
I get the hint j1n... I'll get back to the original question...

I already posted the reasons why I think staying away from the ____-marts is a way to be green. I don't know if Target & K-mart are as BIG of an offender as Wal-mart. I would guess not, because Wal-mart is the biggest company (I think they are still the biggest in the world???). But they all sell basically the same stuff. Big box stores have a harder time doing right as you put it because by their very nature... they're just HUGE. I don't know if there is anything they can do to counteract their size and their output.
 
Old 05-23-2008, 05:39 PM
 
Location: CA
2,464 posts, read 6,453,437 times
Reputation: 2641
Quote:
Originally Posted by j1n View Post
I agree with the premise of being environmentally responsible. Or at the very least not being irresponsible. But where is the line drawn? And who decides what "too intrusive" is? There are "marts" that are making strides towards being much more environmentally responsible. Yes, they are an enormous store with a large physical footprint. But what about malls? Football fields? Stadiums? Airports? What about the parking lots for all those places? And I'm a little lost on how or why a store should cut down on the products that they sell. Maybe it's because I live sorta "out in the sticks" that my local walmart seems to carry a good selection of needed stuff. Maybe not all needed by me, but maybe by someone else. For instance...if I like a metal stirring spoons, my next door neighbor likes plastic ones, and the next guy down wants a wooden spoon...do the stores just decide to carry one? Or do they just stock one kind? And if they don't have what Mr Smith next door wants, what does he do? Order online from some gigantic warehouse plopped down out in the middle of yet more formerly pristine forest? It just goes on and on.
I don't know if I'll have time to answer all your questions but I'll try...

My utopia is Europe and some U.S. cities that have small, community oriented markets. I love the fact that places exist where packaging is unnecessary because it gets in the way, one can haggle (the locals wouldn't respect you if you didn't), and the shops are tents (like a flea market) where everything is fresh, local... and one can shop and mingle under the sky, no a/c. Little shops that offer specialty items - fromage, wine... This is their ____-mart. People have been shopping this way for hundreds (thousands?) of years and it worked for them. So, I suppose by American standards 85K of retail space is commonplace and not intrusive, but when I go to areas where the _____-marts aren't welcome... it really is an eye-opener. It doesn't have to be the Wal-mart way.

I don't know if shopping online is worse I haven't looked into it. But really it just comes down to consumption. If we really want to have a good effect on the environment it's about consuming less no matter what store we frequent.
 
Old 05-23-2008, 06:01 PM
 
Location: Central Texas
20,958 posts, read 45,231,296 times
Reputation: 24738
It doesn't have to be the Walmart way. However, given our infrastructure, at this point in time, in the real world, as someone asked earlier, is it better to drive to many individual stores to purchase needed (not luxury) items, or is it better to drive to one place, park, and do all your shopping there?

The point is, it's not at all simple, not at all black and white (one of the things one learns when studying to be an EcoBroker, if one hasn't learned that already just in the course of a few decades on the planet ). There's a constant weighing of cause and effect, which is better, which is worse, and the obvious answer isn't always the right one (as it rarely is in the rest of life, either).

It's convenient, it does give that rush of self-righteousness (as I said, I've seen it in myself, not just in others, and I understand the lure not only of the rush but of the denial that that's what I'm feeling), and it's SO nice to think that we've Found the Villain And It's The Other Guy.

It's also easy to look at any corporation and forget the fact that it's made up not of anonymous Executives In Black Hats but rather of hundreds or thousands of little people just like us, many of whom work in Walmarts because those are the jobs that are available to them in their area, and that many of those who shop there do so because the store has, for a price they can afford, what they need and their choice is to drive twenty or thirty or forty or fifty miles one way to get those needed items, or to order them delivered to them, individually, in Big Brown Trucks. Again, which is more environmentally "correct"?

Then, of course, there's all those little people whose retirement funds are invested in stocks of corporations like Walmart or IKEA or Target or any of the other successful businesses - you have to remember that by putting the bullseye on Walmart because it's the latest In Thing To Be Against (and there's more than a little of that in the movement against Walmart, if not on this board, then in plenty of other places where I've heard this discussed both online and in real life), you're also putting the bullseye on those folks.

Somehow, all of this makes it hard for me to toe a party line unthinkingly - the things that must be weighed are dizzying.
 
Old 05-23-2008, 08:57 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,316 posts, read 120,318,490 times
Reputation: 35920
Thanks to everyone for the reps I got while working today. I have been "green" since before it became popular. I grew up that way. Currently, we grow some of our own food and I make some of my clothes. DH and I live very frugally. What I don't get is why Wal Mart is synonymous with consumerism to some people. The Wal Mart brand is hardly exclusive, or even upscale. They sell mostly basics, and people joke all the time about "Wal Mart specials". I think all of us have a need for a few treats in life, too. Everyone on City-Data has access to a computer, and most probably own their own, thus have an internet service provider. I doubt there are many people posting away at the public library. These are not necessities.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Green Living

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top