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Old 04-19-2008, 03:18 PM
 
Location: New Albany, Indiana (Greater Louisville)
11,974 posts, read 25,337,451 times
Reputation: 12186

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For all those who think the electric car is the solution to the world's energy problems --> THINK AGAIN

Remember ethanol? It was supposed to be the solution - until it became popular. Now so many people are planting corn for ethanol that ALL crop prices are skyrocketing. Deforestation of the rain forest has increased dramatically because of this.

If 300 million American's all start driving electric cars the cost of electricity will skyrocket. It will also require more electric production which come 80% from coal burning plants. Electricity from wind, wave, and solar is still expensive.

The only solution to energy independence is walkable neighborhoods and people living closer to where they work and play. There is NO cheap way to fuel the wasteful suburban lifestyle.
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Old 04-19-2008, 06:24 PM
 
Location: Dayton OH
5,650 posts, read 11,206,047 times
Reputation: 13115
Quote:
Originally Posted by censusdata View Post
If 300 million American's all start driving electric cars the cost of electricity will skyrocket. It will also require more electric production which come 80% from coal burning plants. Electricity from wind, wave, and solar is still expensive.

The only solution to energy independence is walkable neighborhoods and people living closer to where they work and play. There is NO cheap way to fuel the wasteful suburban lifestyle.
Actually, most people who would use an all electric or a soon to be available plug in hybrid electric car for commuting would be recharging the batteries at night, when the electric grid has the least amount of use from homes, industry and business. Most electric power plants, especially coal fired plants, run day and night at the same output, even though most of the power generated during the night at present never gets used. Hydro plants can reduce output by shutting off valves to spin fewer turbines at night, but coal plants need a long time to fire up the giant steam boilers so they run them day and night.

So let's say 30 or 40 percent of all new cars sold between 2010 and 2020 are electric or plug in hybrids that re-charge at night, it does not imply that a massive electrical power shortage would occur. My thought is they would simply be using up electrical power that at present goes to waste at night. Also, about 50 to 55 percent of the electricity generated in the USA comes coal fired plants, not 80 percent. In some states and in particular the upper midwest, coal supplies 80+ percent of the power.

Yes, in a more perfect world people would live in walkable neighborhoods and live closer to where they work or play. It's just not easy to undo what has already been built across the USA for the past 6 decades. Unfortunately most people will wait until things are absolutely a disaster before making any radical changes to their daily patterns.

I live in a walkable community, I commute by bicycle to work every work day and walk to most shopping errands nearby. It is liberating not to even bother looking at gas pump prices. I own a car but don't drive it much, a little bit on weekends. I filled the tank about 6 weeks ago and still have almost half a tank left.

Electric cars and plug in hybrid electric cars may not solve all the problems, but I think they are a positive step in buying more time to allow more long term changes to occur that would someday break our nation's addiction to imported oil. If we don't make some changes sooner rather than later, the percentage of our national GDP that goes out the door to Canada, Mexico, Venezuela and the mid east oil sheiks will go higher and higher and higher. All that money goes away instead of being invested here at home, money that could better be invested in re-building our own infrastructure. Domestic infrastructure projects (mass transit, re-building century old bridges, water lines, power grid) instead of throwing it away on foreign oil would cause a home grown economic boom that has not been seen in decades.
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Old 04-20-2008, 08:35 AM
 
Location: America
6,993 posts, read 17,303,862 times
Reputation: 2093
Quote:
Originally Posted by censusdata View Post
For all those who think the electric car is the solution to the world's energy problems --> THINK AGAIN

Remember ethanol? It was supposed to be the solution - until it became popular. Now so many people are planting corn for ethanol that ALL crop prices are skyrocketing. Deforestation of the rain forest has increased dramatically because of this.

If 300 million American's all start driving electric cars the cost of electricity will skyrocket. It will also require more electric production which come 80% from coal burning plants. Electricity from wind, wave, and solar is still expensive.

The only solution to energy independence is walkable neighborhoods and people living closer to where they work and play and extensive mass transit. There is NO cheap way to fuel the wasteful suburban lifestyle.
I fixed that for you.

I don't believe alternative fuel cars will save the day. Not because of cost of refueling but because people do not have the money to purchase all these new cars. I read that half of 2007s inventory is still on lots across America. When they come out with these new cars it won't be any difference. Especially when you factor in how fast inflation is kicking in. Mass transit, mass transit, mass transit. It is that simple. Well that and walk ability, as census pointed out.
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Old 04-20-2008, 09:26 AM
 
75 posts, read 203,417 times
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How about building a few new refinerys and useing some of our own oil? The U.S. has plenty of oil but it's just caped off and we have new technoligy to get oil from the oil sands but have yet to impliment it.
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Old 04-20-2008, 10:30 AM
 
28,803 posts, read 47,491,814 times
Reputation: 37905
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Style View Post
I fixed that for you.

I don't believe alternative fuel cars will save the day. Not because of cost of refueling but because people do not have the money to purchase all these new cars. I read that half of 2007s inventory is still on lots across America. When they come out with these new cars it won't be any difference. Especially when you factor in how fast inflation is kicking in. Mass transit, mass transit, mass transit. It is that simple. Well that and walk ability, as census pointed out.
I wonder how true that is. We have the money and we were about to buy a new vehicle, but decided against it until we see what the hybrid technology is going to do over the next couple of years. It would be curious to know how many other people feel the same way.

As for mass transit: If other cities are doing the same bang up job ours is it will never happen. 30 years ago they decided against a light rail system that would connect the suburbs to downtown because of cost. They were, and still are, too short-sighted to understand the costs associated with it are much less than any alternative available to them.

I would be willing to wager that our downtown business profile would be considerably different if workers didn't have to drive through that horrible rush hour traffic and pay $70-$100 a month just to park their cars.

The dumbest part: They just spent a God-awful bunch of money on the freeway system here because it was overloaded. If we had a people-mover in place to the burbs that would not have been necessary. Besides, it's only needed twice a day during weekdays. The rest of the time it is deserted.

I swear that as soon as someone becomes a part of the local political decision making system their IQ drops 50 points.
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Old 04-20-2008, 11:07 AM
 
Location: America
6,993 posts, read 17,303,862 times
Reputation: 2093
tek frek

I am sure there are many, like you and your family who are sitting on the side lines because they know new car tech is coming. However I drew my conclusions from the statistics I read, that said most Americans spend $1.50 over every $1.00 earned. That is a HUGE gap and shows that people are buying this stuff on credit. However with the current credit crisis this option is slowing drying up for many.

As for mass transit, I think a few things need to happen. Cities are going to need to figure out ways to get people out of the burbs and closer to the city cores. Just from a logistic and cost stand point, it is far more efficient to move people who are tightly packed as opposed to vastly spread out. Sprawl = unnecessary drain on resources. Just look at Georgia, they have water problems now. A lot of that has to do with the extreme nature of sprawl they have. Now compare and contrast that to cities like Chicago and NYC (I am originally from NYC), better mass transit than most of the country, they have also been shown to use resources far more efficiently than most of the country as well (just do search on google for that)

Fort Lauderdale (where I live) was having the same issue you are speaking about as far as building out a sensible mass transit system. Well they have finally nailed down what they will do and I for one applaud it. I think EVERY city across America is going to be forced to roll out such systems. I don't think they will be able to cover all of their sprawl and I think this will force those with the means to move closer to areas that are covered by mass transit. I think we are definitely in one of those technological shift periods. Sort of like the shift to say internet or to PCs in most american homes or even the steam engine shift.

Anyway here is a link to the thread I made about mass transit plans in Fort Lauderdale. I should also add I think fast rail between metro regions is going to take off too. Example we have the south Florida region, central Florida region and north Florida region. They are talking about building a bullet train to connect the three. Interesting times indeed.
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Old 04-20-2008, 09:36 PM
 
Location: Southern Illinois
10,364 posts, read 20,717,424 times
Reputation: 15642
Quote:
Yes, in a more perfect world people would live in walkable neighborhoods and live closer to where they work or play. It's just not easy to undo what has already been built across the USA for the past 6 decades. Unfortunately most people will wait until things are absolutely a disaster before making any radical changes to their daily patterns.
Did you ever walk, drive or bike thru a city and just see how much land is devoted to the car? Parking lots, six lane city boulevards, 10 lane highways, and all the land that is wasted inside the cloverleaf offramps, and has to be mowed? If all that was gone, you could walk or bike much more efficiently and safely. Also, neighborhoods could be rezoned so that small businesses could be interspersed with the houses, and provide places to work as well as make for a more interesting neighborhood. In fact, I think rezoning could make for the fastest change, and get people walking more.
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Old 04-21-2008, 06:21 AM
 
Location: America
6,993 posts, read 17,303,862 times
Reputation: 2093
^^

Don't worry, in the next decade what you are suggesting will be a reality whether those in suburbia like it or not.
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Old 04-22-2008, 01:28 PM
 
Location: Coastal South Carolina
330 posts, read 1,193,077 times
Reputation: 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by dolphin3 View Post
How about building a few new refinerys and useing some of our own oil? The U.S. has plenty of oil but it's just caped off and we have new technoligy to get oil from the oil sands but have yet to impliment it.
Isn't the point to be moving away from using fossil fuel, no matter where it comes from?
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Old 04-22-2008, 01:39 PM
 
Location: Coastal South Carolina
330 posts, read 1,193,077 times
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I agree with the other posters who have said that we need mass transit and more walkability.

I also live in a walkable community, like recycled has mentioned to live in. A "New Urbanism" type of neighborhood. Our home lots are much smaller and we have common green space instead for sports or for kids to play on. We can walk to the grocery store, the bank, a drug store, etc. We live closer to our neighbors but we talk to each other more now as we walk by each other so often. Our garages and driveways are located in back alleys at the rear of our properties to reduce car traffic on our intentionally smaller streets and also for safety. I'm a SAHM and I've reduced the need to use my car at least 50% and my health has improved because of the additional exercise.

But many house hunters take a look at our neighborhood and just don't "get it". They balk because they say they "need" this much of an acre or such sized lot for their kids to play on or they need "privacy". It's still hard for some to grasp a new way of living but I'm hoping that the concept will be better understood in the future.
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