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Old 08-05-2021, 05:24 PM
 
5,214 posts, read 4,015,953 times
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Everyone is thinking about the numbers, it's just that big corporations don't want to loose their billions once Shell or British petroleum invest in offshore drill and next year someone comes up with a way for green hydrogen, graphene en-mass, electric planes...you name it.
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Old 08-05-2021, 07:26 PM
 
5,760 posts, read 11,541,357 times
Reputation: 4949
Quote:
Originally Posted by guidoLaMoto View Post
Foolish me... I dug a little deeper-- 1.8M Evs registered in US (2020) https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...-china-europe/

..out of 287M registered autos (not even counting trucks) https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...-china-europe/

That's about 0.5%...so now that fuel usage number would fall to 110,000 gals, not 1,1M.
So let's do some math? I have no idea of the original modeling, but we can do some reasonable?

Most EVs are actually driven. Not really garage sitters.

Let's say an average of 10,000 miles per year?

1.8E6 x 10,000 miles = 1.8E10 Miles.

Average US car gets 25 miles per gallon?

So 1.8E10 Miles / 25 Miles per gallon = 720,000,000 gallons of fuel saved?

We good so far?

Compared to Total US Gasoline Consumed (to all causes -- aircraft, lawn mowers, tractors, everything)

of 123E9 Gallons, that is (7.2E8 / 123E9) X 100% = about 0.6%.

So yeah, EVs probably "saved" US about 720,000,000 gallons of Gasoline last year.

https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=23&t=10
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Old 08-05-2021, 07:36 PM
 
5,760 posts, read 11,541,357 times
Reputation: 4949
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nattering Heights View Post
Renewables haven't met that mark yet, and probably can't. Giant windmills are energy losses when we include the manufacturing, construction, and maintenance. Many hydroelectric stations will be shut down as the west dries up. Old dams may break before anyone finds the money to repair them. Choosing new hydro locations in wetter areas will be a challenge as the climate whipsaws between extremes. The more practical and efficient (less lossy) solutions are more direct use, with less conversion between energy types and shorter transmission lines. Sunlight can heat water in a tank on a roof. Water motion can turn a mill to do mechanical work. A small windmill can charge a battery on site to operate a farmer's lamp or fridge.
If what you are claiming were true -- your conclusions might be correct.

But since some your basic information is so far off base, so is the result.

Wind Turbines are some of the fastest net gains on Energy. But this is not really about Energy. The Grid runs on money, and Wind Turbines are also some of the lowest cost per MWh production. So Wind Turbines are an easy win. Downside for Big Wind is Time-of-Use v. Time-of-Production. We like to use Electricity mostly in the daytime, especially in Summer. Big Wind produces best at Night, in the Spring and Fall.

Concrete Dams are some of the longest lasting Man Made objects. We do not really know Service Life, yet for the Big ones -- like Hoover or Coulee. I have worked on them. We are up to the Third Generation of the Electrical Portions and Second Generation of the Mechanical Portions -- but the Concrete is doing fine. Looks like it will last 100(s) of years.

You are correct that local production for local demand is best. It is also good to share surplus and/or have reserve back-up from others. Grid Tied Solar PV does both. Grid Tied Solar PV is now the most common new generation source in the US.
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Old 08-05-2021, 10:52 PM
 
Location: Central Washington
1,663 posts, read 875,254 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nattering Heights View Post
Renewables haven't met that mark yet, and probably can't. Giant windmills are energy losses when we include the manufacturing, construction, and maintenance. Many hydroelectric stations will be shut down as the west dries up. Old dams may break before anyone finds the money to repair them. Choosing new hydro locations in wetter areas will be a challenge as the climate whipsaws between extremes. The more practical and efficient (less lossy) solutions are more direct use, with less conversion between energy types and shorter transmission lines. Sunlight can heat water in a tank on a roof. Water motion can turn a mill to do mechanical work. A small windmill can charge a battery on site to operate a farmer's lamp or fridge.
Of the five states with the largest hydropower generation, Washington, Oregon, New York, California, and Alabama, California is the only one that is getting drier. And even though it is getting drier, it's only at a rate of 0.04" per decade. Of the five states that round out the top ten, Arizona is the only other state that's getting drier, and only at a rate of 0.06" per decade. Hydropower is going to be around for a long time to come.
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Old 08-06-2021, 02:53 AM
 
Location: The Driftless Area, WI
7,238 posts, read 5,114,062 times
Reputation: 17732
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philip T View Post
So let's do some math? I have no idea of the original modeling, but we can do some reasonable?

Most EVs are actually driven. Not really garage sitters.

Let's say an average of 10,000 miles per year?

1.8E6 x 10,000 miles = 1.8E10 Miles.

Average US car gets 25 miles per gallon?

So 1.8E10 Miles / 25 Miles per gallon = 720,000,000 gallons of fuel saved?

We good so far?

Compared to Total US Gasoline Consumed (to all causes -- aircraft, lawn mowers, tractors, everything)

of 123E9 Gallons, that is (7.2E8 / 123E9) X 100% = about 0.6%.

So yeah, EVs probably "saved" US about 720,000,000 gallons of Gasoline last year.

https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=23&t=10
I rounded off. Without rounding, my method agrees with yours-- EVs save 0.6% of the gasoline, not 10% as stated in the article.
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Old 08-06-2021, 06:55 AM
 
Location: 404
3,006 posts, read 1,491,307 times
Reputation: 2599
The proof is in the crunch. When oil prices jump, we will have a better picture of what can be done without oil. I was expecting that to be within a year, but a more severe round of dying could drop energy demand.
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Old 08-06-2021, 06:39 PM
 
Location: Minnysoda
10,659 posts, read 10,721,455 times
Reputation: 6745
LOL I met with a major IOU yesterday...They are replacing their simple cycle CT fleet with ng recip's. The one thing you guys are right is the money some people can make from renewables. I'll be consulting for them and laughing all the way to the bank......
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Old 08-07-2021, 06:37 PM
 
565 posts, read 470,434 times
Reputation: 1332
There isn't much uglier than a field of solar panels.
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Old 08-07-2021, 07:16 PM
 
Location: Buffalo, NY
3,573 posts, read 3,070,561 times
Reputation: 9787
Quote:
Originally Posted by forsheamountain View Post
There isn't much uglier than a field of solar panels.
An open pit strip mine?
A topped off mountain top?
Large piles of tar sand sludge?
A field full of generators, bright lights, and drilling equipment?
Crude oil storage farm?
Refineries and cat crackers with active flares?

A field of benign rectangular panels may be dull, not pretty, but also not really offensive either.
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Old 08-08-2021, 04:29 AM
 
Location: The Driftless Area, WI
7,238 posts, read 5,114,062 times
Reputation: 17732
Quote:
Originally Posted by RocketSci View Post

A field of benign rectangular panels may be dull, not pretty, but also not really offensive either.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but a 40 ac parcel paved over with silicon panels has destroyed 40ac of habitat.

Habitat destuction is far and away the biggest problem facing Mother Nature.
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