News, Energy fears looming, new survivalists prepare.

[arctichomesteader]

Originally Posted by tangodoodles

I saw that article too. Is that really going to happen? Because I can't rough it. I've never even been camping. I'm all for buying local and using public transportation but I like city life. So is this going to be a reality or are these "survivalists" just a bit nuts? I think it's a little paranoid. They're planning for the worst, buying guns to protect themselves, and already saying that they're going to have to protect their property. I think it's a little morbid to basically start planning to shoot people who come onto your property to steal food in a time of crisis. Maybe that's the reality when the time comes but planning for it just seems a bit mean. Anyway, does anyone know the likelihood of what they're saying actually happening?

I plan on "homesteading" in Alaska. Only thing keeping me from being there right now is money...I've planned it for years so it has little to do with the current problems, rather, I want to be as self-sufficient as possible. Seems that's looking very wise these days for even more people, who a few years ago would have mocked my plans and questioned why I would live "primitively" and forgo earning big salaries...

Anyways, when you live that way--relying on your gardening, livestock, hunting, fishing, trapping, cutting firewood, etc., to survive, someone stealing something necessary for your survival is quite a serious thing, an attack on your life in fact. So while people today often think it cruel to shoot someone over stealing, say, a chicken or a crosscut saw, understand that under certain circumstances, that's quite a serious crime...I wouldn't hesitate to shoot someone in that situation. If I feel safe doing so I may warn them to stop and get away, but if they refuse, or I realize they're armed making doing so dangerous to me, I think my 8mm mauser (my favorite rifle, seeing as how it's quite accurate and quite powerful) will take care of most 2 legged threats...I've got several hundred rounds of surplus FMJ ammo, and almost as much new SP hunting ammo, stashed away.

Whatever happens, the least we can say is there's been plenty of warnings, for years, about possible major shortages and problems. So anyone able to be prepared for these problems, has no excuse not to be prepared when the time comes. I'd feel pity for the person who truly can't, and unless they were acting in a threatening manner, I'd probably give them some help if I could without endangering myself. But the person who's spent their life buying SUV's, a big suburban home, electronic junk, etc., basically, being a wasteful materialist, suddenly has that wastefulness catch up with them, I'll feel little pity for them, particularly if they resort to stealing.

[my54ford]

Originally Posted by tangodoodles

I was so freaked out by that article that I asked my dad what he thought and he said that if the oil situation really became that dire the government could have hundreds of nuclear power plants up and running within weeks or months. That may not be the best solution but now I feel pretty confident that the government would provide some source of energy even if it had a negative environmental impact. And, I'm sorry, but if the energy situation got to the point those survivalists seem to think it will, I don't think I'll care about whether the solutions are environmentally friendly.

I don't mean to burst your dads bubble but a nuk plant takes anywhere between 10 to 18 years to build. Even up sizeing the existiing nukers would take years not months. It will be interesting to see who crys the loudest when the lights start going out...........Industry Guru's think it may start as soon as this year in large metro areas I.E socal......

[tangodoodles]

Originally Posted by my54ford

I don't mean to burst your dads bubble but a nuk plant takes anywhere between 10 to 18 years to build. Even up sizeing the existiing nukers would take years not months. It will be interesting to see who crys the loudest when the lights start going out...........Industry Guru's think it may start as soon as this year in large metro areas I.E socal......

Actually, I'm pretty sure it doesn't. I decided to look it up and the newer models take at the most three years to build. So my dad was off but three years isn't much. The government always knows things that we have no clue about and if they saw something terrible coming they could start construction.

[arctichomesteader]

Originally Posted by tangodoodles

Actually, I'm pretty sure it doesn't. I decided to look it up and the newer models take at the most three years to build. So my dad was off but three years isn't much. The government always knows things that we have no clue about and if they saw something terrible coming they could start construction.

Even if the reactor takes 3 years (and that's 3 years of power problems going on before it's built), the red tape will take far longer. The government can't actually simply go to an area and build a nuclear plant. You have local, state and federal regulations, permits, people who will resist it (possibly high ranking officials at that) including by time consuming lawsuits, etc. There hasn't been a new nuclear power plant built in a very long time in the U.S., for precisely these reasons. Nuclear power isn't going to save us, at least, not in the near future.

[tangodoodles]

Originally Posted by arctichomesteader

Even if the reactor takes 3 years (and that's 3 years of power problems going on before it's built), the red tape will take far longer. The government can't actually simply go to an area and build a nuclear plant. You have local, state and federal regulations, permits, people who will resist it (possibly high ranking officials at that) including by time consuming lawsuits, etc. There hasn't been a new nuclear power plant built in a very long time in the U.S., for precisely these reasons. Nuclear power isn't going to save us, at least, not in the near future.

In France more than 70% of their energy is provided by nuclear power plants. It is considered a renewable energy source and the only real cause for concern is what to do with the waste. The newer models, the ones that take three to four years to build, are safer and much less likely to have a meltdown. If it got to the point that we were running out of food and energy then the government would probably institute martial law and at that point Congress couldn't say boo about the plant. Obviously this is a worst case scenario. All I'm saying is, not all of us have to move out to the middle of nowhere because even though some people distrust the government completely and some only trust it to a certain extent (myself included), they are still going to figure out ways for us to survive, even if that means conquering other nations and taking their resources (as horrible as that would be). It may sound insensitive but it pays to be a citizen in one of the most powerful countries on Earth.

[my54ford]

Originally Posted by tangodoodles

Actually, I'm pretty sure it doesn't. I decided to look it up and the newer models take at the most three years to build. So my dad was off but three years isn't much. The government always knows things that we have no clue about and if they saw something terrible coming they could start construction.

OK, I work for a wholesale power provider. I have seen the plans on the board. Black and Veitch is building one for the chicoms right now it's been in planning for 4 years and they haven't broken ground on it yet and they don't need a permit. In this country the permit/senate hearing/law suit process alone will take 5 years, then the actual build time on top of that! Then there's transmission lines! A greenfield site (Bare ground nothing there) will take a whole lot longer then 3 years and a repower\upsize will take only slightly shorter. Heck we're trying to upsize a coal burner and it won't have COD (commercial operation date) untill 2018............

[tangodoodles]

Originally Posted by my54ford

OK, I work for a wholesale power provider. I have seen the plans on the board. Black and Veitch is building one for the chicoms right now it's been in planning for 4 years and they haven't broken ground on it yet and they don't need a permit. In this country the permit/senate hearing/law suit process alone will take 5 years, then the actual build time on top of that! Then there's transmission lines! A greenfield site (Bare ground nothing there) will take a whole lot longer then 3 years and a repower\upsize will take only slightly shorter. Heck we're trying to upsize a coal burner and it won't have COD (commercial operation date) untill 2018............

Yeah, I was reading an article the other day and it said Bush has approved three of the new types of nuclear power plants but they won't be ready until 2015. Obviously going through the proper channels takes a long time but if the country really got to that point and martial law was declared the plants would go up faster. I'm pretty sure that the fears some homesteaders have are a bit overblown and we don't actually have that much too worry about.

[riveree]

Originally Posted by arctichomesteader

Whatever happens, the least we can say is there's been plenty of warnings, for years, about possible major shortages and problems. So anyone able to be prepared for these problems, has no excuse not to be prepared when the time comes. I'd feel pity for the person who truly can't, and unless they were acting in a threatening manner, I'd probably give them some help if I could without endangering myself. But the person who's spent their life buying SUV's, a big suburban home, electronic junk, etc., basically, being a wasteful materialist, suddenly has that wastefulness catch up with them, I'll feel little pity for them, particularly if they resort to stealing.

I know what you're saying, but if we ever did reach that point (deindustrialization), I would hope we'd all be compassionate towards each other. Everyone might not be equally prepared for self-reliance, but everyone has something to offer and trade would likely occur.