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Old 10-14-2022, 05:27 PM
 
14,992 posts, read 7,033,290 times
Reputation: 18811

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Quote:
Originally Posted by guidoLaMoto View Post
Yes, there is a tipping point, but 4.5 Billion yrs of Earth's history says that the tipping point is one where increasing temps leads to a sudden reversal of temps.....A tipping point that leads to accelerated warming would be a positive feedback system, which is not sustainable. The fact that we've cycled from hot to cold repeatedly shows that Earth has a negative feedback system at work. As long as there are oceans and rain clouds, there will never be a climate crisis.

Warmer is better for human health and more co2 is better for photosynthetic plants. ...So where's The Problem?

In regards consumerism--take the longer look. Increased consumerism leads to certain environmental costs, but also to more jobs & better money circulation, which translates to higher standard of living. You can't make an omelet without breaking a few eggs....With higher standard of living, there is more "extra" money available for environmental conservation projects & efforts.
There's never been a situation in the Earth's history where a "non-natural" input was added to the system. If we keep dumping CO2 into the atmosphere, along with large quantities of methane and fluorocarbons, the regular feedback systems may not work as expected.

As for me, I am going to go with what my geoscientist friends say, which is that continuing as we have is not going to end well.
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Old 10-14-2022, 05:30 PM
 
14,992 posts, read 7,033,290 times
Reputation: 18811
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post
I will tell you what you probably already know. Electric vehicles are a lot more expensive than similar I CE‘s. Their driving range is short. There is no guarantee that the grid can supply enough power at all times of the day and night, to provide similar freedom as is provided by 24 hour gas stations.

Basically, this is a form of lockdown.
The EV's with 300-400 mile range are no different than ICE vehicles with the same range. For vehicles driven around town and not taken on longer trips, which is a majority, there's no reason to avoid EVs, at least from a usability perspective. Buy one EV and one ICE, and all your needs are probably taken care of.
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Old 10-14-2022, 05:55 PM
 
474 posts, read 253,649 times
Reputation: 524
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post
I will tell you what you probably already know. Electric vehicles are a lot more expensive than similar I CE‘s. Their driving range is short. There is no guarantee that the grid can supply enough power at all times of the day and night, to provide similar freedom as is provided by 24 hour gas stations.

Basically, this is a form of lockdown.
3rd time, attack by whom to what purpose? Maybe you want to take the 5th?
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Old 10-14-2022, 07:39 PM
Status: "World is turned upside down," apologies to British song" (set 20 days ago)
 
Location: New York Area
34,228 posts, read 16,384,036 times
Reputation: 29350
Quote:
Originally Posted by Humphrey_C_Earwicker View Post
3rd time, attack by whom to what purpose? Maybe you want to take the 5th?
Seriously I feel I answered your question. The attack is by the "elites", who feel they know better than everyone else and are entitled to rule, to punish ordinary people for any success they may have.
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Old 10-14-2022, 07:53 PM
Status: "World is turned upside down," apologies to British song" (set 20 days ago)
 
Location: New York Area
34,228 posts, read 16,384,036 times
Reputation: 29350
As to ancillary environmental damage created by EV's, an excerpt from the article states:
Quote:
Originally Posted by New York Times
Atop a long-dormant volcano in northern Nevada, workers are preparing to start blasting and digging out a giant pit that will serve as the first new large-scale lithium mine in the United States in more than a decade — a new domestic supply of an essential ingredient in electric car batteries and renewable energy.
The mine, constructed on leased federal lands, could help address the near total reliance by the United States on foreign sources of lithium.
But the project, known as Lithium Americas, has drawn protests from members of a Native American tribe, ranchers and environmental groups because it is expected to use billions of gallons of precious ground water, potentially contaminating some of it for 300 years, while leaving behind a giant mound of waste.
“Blowing up a mountain isn’t green, no matter how much marketing spin people put on it,” said Max Wilbert, who has been living in a tent on the proposed mine site while two lawsuits seeking to block the project wend their way through federal courts.
Eventually, when consumers realize that the replacement costs of a car have more than doubled, and the new cars have no resale value once their batteries die, they will rebel.
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Old 10-14-2022, 08:32 PM
 
Location: The Piedmont of North Carolina
5,541 posts, read 2,544,477 times
Reputation: 7000
Quote:
Originally Posted by WRM20 View Post
The EV's with 300-400 mile range are no different than ICE vehicles with the same range.
Except it takes five to ten minutes to fully fill an empty gasoline tank versus a few hours to completely charge a fully depleted battery.

And, you are not supposed to use the entire range of an EV, as it is not good for the battery. It is recommended, for long battery life, to not charge an EV above eighty percent, and not let it fall below twenty percent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WRM20
Buy one EV and one ICE, and all your needs are probably taken care of.
How is having one ICE car and one EV better for the environment than one ICE that is capable of handling everything I need it to?

I am not convinced EV's are any better for the environment than what we currently do. Vehicle emissions make up one percent of global pollution. There are much bigger fish to fry than to quibble over the type of vehicle people wish to drive.
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Old 10-14-2022, 11:52 PM
 
Location: The Driftless Area, WI
7,102 posts, read 4,913,027 times
Reputation: 17421
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2022/10/...u-can-imagine/

Li production is an incredibly dirty process.

Note that the price of Li has quadrupled in the last 2 yrs, and that's with EV sales rising to only 10% of total auto sales.
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Old 10-14-2022, 11:59 PM
 
Location: The Driftless Area, WI
7,102 posts, read 4,913,027 times
Reputation: 17421
Quote:
Originally Posted by WRM20 View Post
There's never been a situation in the Earth's history where a "non-natural" input was added to the system. If we keep dumping CO2 into the atmosphere, along with large quantities of methane and fluorocarbons, the regular feedback systems may not work as expected.

As for me, I am going to go with what my geoscientist friends say, which is that continuing as we have is not going to end well.
Ask you geoscientist friend to explain how [co2] levels were once 8000ppm, temps didn't rise above 22degC and the planet didn't melt away....Have him explain how ch4 is a problem at all when it's levels are only 1/10,000th of that of co2 and its absorption spectrum is completely over-lapped by that of h20 & co2....

...or, you could just have another sip of KoolAid and smuggly relax, knowing that you have all the facts and know exactly what all the rest of us stupid people should do.
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Old 10-15-2022, 07:06 AM
 
Location: U.S.
9,498 posts, read 8,898,452 times
Reputation: 5917
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post
Seriously I feel I answered your question. The attack is by the "elites", who feel they know better than everyone else and are entitled to rule, to punish ordinary people for any success they may have.
You did answer the question, twice. The overall opinion is that elites want to increase their span of control and EVs present that opportunity. Once electrical grid began having the ability to turn on/off electricity, the tipping point was reached. The utilities first installed these remote meters (which could also be turned on/off remotely), then power for non bill paying could happen as does leased cars. You don’t pay, widget is turned off. This impacts the poor now and much greater frequency than the middle class. None of these examples have to do with saving the planet but protecting financial interests.

There are upsides to EVs such as half as many people to build since there are far less parts. The mass usage will put a strain on the grid that many are under-estimating. Practically speaking, China is opening another coal plant WEEKLY in order to meet energy demands. With 5x the U.S. population (they have 3 cities with over 40 million people), their energy needs are astounding as they enter the technological 21st century.

Last point. Control. Does everyone remember at the start of Covid lockdowns that non compliance was tracked by cell phone usage? Not individually of course but in general, cell signatures reported just small “drop” in peoples’s movements along major corridors so civic leaders and politicians rightly assessed their “Covid lockdown” was being ignored. EVs will “report” the same type of data much better than ICEs. Not so much turning off EVs like overdue leased vehicles, but just a measuring tool for “compliance” on the next lockdown.

You can leave your phone at home but unless you bike, your 60 mph travel speed is being monitored with EVs.
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Old 10-15-2022, 07:42 AM
Status: "World is turned upside down," apologies to British song" (set 20 days ago)
 
Location: New York Area
34,228 posts, read 16,384,036 times
Reputation: 29350
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnsonkk View Post
The overall opinion is that elites want to increase their span of control and EVs present that opportunity. Once electrical grid began having the ability to turn on/off electricity, the tipping point was reached. *********

Last point. Control. Does everyone remember at the start of Covid lockdowns that non compliance was tracked by cell phone usage? Not individually of course but in general, cell signatures reported just small “drop” in peoples’s movements along major corridors so civic leaders and politicians rightly assessed their “Covid lockdown” was being ignored. EVs will “report” the same type of data much better than ICEs. Not so much turning off EVs like overdue leased vehicles, but just a measuring tool for “compliance” on the next lockdown.

You can leave your phone at home but unless you bike, your 60 mph travel speed is being monitored with EVs.
There doesn't necessarily have to be this direct, "big-brother" control. I have electronic tolling, via a sensor in my car so I know my whereabouts, to some extent, are being tracked. I don't care since I obey the law. Indirect control can come from restricting how much electricity can be drawn from the grid, or just making it too expensive and/or (and I mean "or" more) burdensome. That's why I threw plastic bags into my OP. Participating in the consumer society is being burdened, as a result of bag accumulation in the Bay of Bengal off India. It's ideology, not results, that matter.
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