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Old 06-28-2008, 12:39 AM
 
433 posts, read 2,356,364 times
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CO2 increase is the result of global warming. Melting ice etc. Every warming event in the past brought with it an increase in CO2.

I'm to the point now where I really don't care. I don't think we're a major player in this warming and, bottom line, I would rather have warming than another (much more common in meteorological history) ice age. Climate is cyclical.
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Old 06-29-2008, 09:38 PM
 
Location: Houston, TX
1,712 posts, read 4,232,870 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by killer2021 View Post
Alright, we all know that the world is warming, that is a fact. We can openly see the affects and it is widely documented that global warming is in process. HOWEVER, we aren't 100% sure on what is causing global warming. Yet I see everyone talking about how they can reduce CO2 emissions, like it is a fact that more co2 in the air = more global warming and frankly many of you are mislead. For all we know, global warming could be entirely controlled by processes that are not in the realm of human control. Also the fact that many politicians have linked more co2 = more global warming tells me that there is a political agenda being pushed behind this co2 global warming idea.
Yes, based purely on physics, adding more CO2 combined with incoming radiation (from the sun) will raise the temperature of that air.

That's as true of a fact as "if you drop an apple, it will fall to the ground due to gravity".

But it's not just CO2 you should be worried about. There's methane, which is 22 times stronger than CO2 in terms of raising the temperature of the air by releasing infrared radiation. And there's also some other strange greenhouse gases much more powerful than CO2 in that regard, and we need to limit those emissions as well.

Political agenda be damned, this is our planet, we all share this world... let's not ruin it for everyone just because some people think it's all about politics and raising taxes.
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Old 06-29-2008, 10:39 PM
 
Location: Earth Wanderer, longing for the stars.
12,406 posts, read 18,971,076 times
Reputation: 8912
Quote:
Originally Posted by DCNative View Post
Yes, based purely on physics, adding more CO2 combined with incoming radiation (from the sun) will raise the temperature of that air.

That's as true of a fact as "if you drop an apple, it will fall to the ground due to gravity".

But it's not just CO2 you should be worried about. There's methane, which is 22 times stronger than CO2 in terms of raising the temperature of the air by releasing infrared radiation. And there's also some other strange greenhouse gases much more powerful than CO2 in that regard, and we need to limit those emissions as well.

Political agenda be damned, this is our planet, we all share this world... let's not ruin it for everyone just because some people think it's all about politics and raising taxes.
I think, behind the resistance, is business not wanting to change. The energy lobby is huge in the US and for non-polluting alternate industries to take off, the old will fade away. Surely, they are fighting for their survival, using every trick they have to influence our government to slow the inevitable.

I do not think they are willing to think in terms of the entire planet being threatened, just their own short-termed survival. That our government can also be so short sighted is horrifying.

So, to those in the government, they want to salvage 'big energy', so they propose alternates that they may also be able to make money off of, billing the consumer on a regular basis - the problem is, that those methods, too, are polluting. Nuclear produces horrendous waste that will stay dangerous for millions of years. We cannot afford to produce that waste which will eventually be worse than fossil fuels. Coal and biofuels are polluting.


No, we must choose wind, solar, water, geothermal. We must support research for alternates in a big way, and not the drop in the bucket that we now allocate to it. I cannot see how there is ANYTHING that could be more important to this.
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Old 06-29-2008, 11:19 PM
 
Location: Houston, TX
1,712 posts, read 4,232,870 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goldengrain View Post
No, we must choose wind, solar, water, geothermal. We must support research for alternates in a big way, and not the drop in the bucket that we now allocate to it. I cannot see how there is ANYTHING that could be more important to this.
I agree with this.
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Old 06-30-2008, 09:53 PM
 
Location: Boise, ID
1,356 posts, read 6,026,486 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DCNative View Post
Yes, based purely on physics, adding more CO2 combined with incoming radiation (from the sun) will raise the temperature of that air.

That's as true of a fact as "if you drop an apple, it will fall to the ground due to gravity".
Yes, but with the amount of CO2 we are adding to the atmosphere - versus that produced naturally - the increase in temperature might be imperceptibly small.

There is also the theory that warming precedes higher CO2 levels. As the oceans warm they hold less CO2 and release it into the atmosphere. This actually makes much more sense than blaming increased CO2 levels on humans. After all, wild fluctuations in CO2 (according ice core samples) predate humans and our use of hydrocarbons.

Of course, all of this assumes the earth is warming in a manner that it never has before. That is an absolutely false assumption.
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Old 06-30-2008, 09:55 PM
 
Location: Boise, ID
1,356 posts, read 6,026,486 times
Reputation: 944
Quote:
Originally Posted by goldengrain View Post
No, we must choose wind, solar, water, geothermal. We must support research for alternates in a big way, and not the drop in the bucket that we now allocate to it.
Believe it or not, I agree with this too.

But I also recognize that the market is much wiser and more powerful than regulations and taxes. The high price of oil has done more to change the behavior of the consumer in six months than all the government regulations, mandates, taxes, and carpool lanes of the last three decades - combined.
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Old 06-30-2008, 10:37 PM
 
3,459 posts, read 5,793,604 times
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Sulfur dioxide cools the earth....volcanos taught us that.

Why not use high sulfur jet fuel to offset the effects of CO2? The environmentalists might want to force the planes to use low sulfur fuel at low altitudes to cut back on acid rain, but using high sulfur fuel at high altitudes would seem to be a good thing.
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Old 07-01-2008, 12:11 AM
 
Location: mid atlantic
314 posts, read 930,824 times
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thats already happening....they know and have done evaporation studies for a long time....the earth is shielded by its pollution....the 3 days of the no fly order after 911 showed an increase in evaporation readings...

I watched a show about this .....it wasnt about "global warming" but about the smog sheild (for lack of a better word) and evaporation rates for the last 100 years.

Believe it or not evaporation rates are down over the long term.
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Old 07-01-2008, 01:08 AM
 
2,769 posts, read 7,234,959 times
Reputation: 1487
Quote:
Originally Posted by Niners fan View Post
I'm not sure it's a fact that the earth is warming. I have read that temperatures haven't really gone up since 1999.

But as to the question in your post - yes some people believe it.

I don't. I think it is just something for people with too much time on their hands to worry about. Or worse yet for people who have control over raising our taxes.

I do believe in taking care of the earth. But I can't buy that CO2 is a pollutant.

I completely agree.
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Old 07-01-2008, 08:20 AM
 
Location: Loudoun County, VA
1,148 posts, read 3,739,142 times
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I don't think that CO2 is the direct cause for global warming, I believe it's a combination of both human caused and natural things. There is no way to stop the warming, we just need to adapt. But I am all for lessening CO2 to make our planet a less polluted place to live. With hybrids etc. our dependency on foreign oil could also be overcome.
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