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Old 09-26-2009, 02:45 PM
 
Location: 125 Years Too Late...
10,851 posts, read 10,521,459 times
Reputation: 9513

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Quote:
Originally Posted by CometVoyager View Post
The hypocrisy of this cave man technology is so dumb.
Do you think cavemen started burning stuff first... or did they build a windmill first? I'm too lazy to research it, but I'll bet you the burning of coal preceded the building of windmills.


I still don't get why you are so alarmist about windmills. Windmill 'farms' are nothing new. I wonder how many people bellyached when these were erected?

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Old 09-26-2009, 02:50 PM
 
Location: 125 Years Too Late...
10,851 posts, read 10,521,459 times
Reputation: 9513
Quote:
Originally Posted by CometVoyager View Post
Here are the GPS Coordinates if one would like to see how Blackbone Mountain's Ridge was cut for erection of the inefficient wind turbines!!


Yes, could you please tell us more about the environmental ills of windmills. The owners of this coal mine need a lesson.
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Old 09-26-2009, 04:07 PM
 
Location: Moving
1,249 posts, read 2,621,753 times
Reputation: 1322
Default ChrsC

[quote=ChrisC;10933009]I still don't get why you are so alarmist about windmills. Windmill 'farms' are nothing new. I wonder how many people bellyached when these were erected? /quote]

ChrisC, I have in previous posts indicated personal use of Windmills could be appropriate in some circumstances. Depends on where you live and many other factors. I see no issue with the use of a wind turbines for personal use. The ones you posted are used for grist mills and stone cutting but do not produce any energy for the public grid.

What I do see as ludicrous is building this huge wind farms! They are grossly inefficient and besides that for the minuscule and every expensive energy they yield they also have some very negative environmental impacts. I hope you can understand the hypocrisy, as the whole purpose of these wind farms are to reduce carbon emissions and be environmentally friendly.

The Clear Cutting alone on Mountain Ridges, which some on this board still do not believe, negates any beneficial aspect of these wind farms. Also the cost, man hours and maintenance alone significantly drive up your energy rates.
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Old 09-26-2009, 05:21 PM
 
Location: Way South of the Volvo Line
2,777 posts, read 7,112,721 times
Reputation: 2834
Quote:
Originally Posted by sandbarcreek View Post
Yes, it is difficult for me to understand why an educated person would make up superfluous support of how wind farms are so great! It is like biting your nose to spite your face! Wind farms are hurting our planet. The clear cutting alone destroys thousands of hectares of beautiful forests and even high desert plains are hurt. The reasoning for a 1000 acre wind farm is so weird akso because you can just only take up 10 acres to produce 100 times more energy with Coal or Nuclear plants.
I live in Maine...formerly lumberjack country. There are a couple new wind farms...I don't think they had to "clear cut" to install them. And even if they did , even the environmentalists up here recognize that TREES GROW BACK. Clear cutting actually mimics the natural cycles of forest burn to generate new growth and varied habitat. The wind farms are a welcome additon to a varied, wide-ranging energy generating picture.
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Old 09-26-2009, 06:00 PM
 
Location: Prescott Valley,az summer/east valley Az winter
2,042 posts, read 3,618,660 times
Reputation: 7884
Quote:
Originally Posted by sandbarcreek View Post
Yes, it is difficult for me to understand why an educated person would make up superfluous support of how wind farms are so great! It is like biting your nose to spite your face! Wind farms are hurting our planet. The clear cutting alone destroys thousands of hectares of beautiful forests and even high desert plains are hurt. The reasoning for a 1000 acre wind farm is so weird akso because you can just only take up 10 acres to produce 100 times more energy with Coal or Nuclear plants.
Now if only your coal fired electric plant will only put 20 ~ 125 meter circles on the ground to provide enough electricity for twenty years output as you advertize. That includes getting all the coal you are going to burn to produce it AND the area for the plant itself!!! You put that 100% guarantee in writing and you may be allowed to put it up.... And don't go putting holes in the ground either!!

Oh! and no releasing clouds of smoke either!
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Old 09-26-2009, 06:24 PM
 
Location: On a Slow-Sinking Granite Rock Up North
3,637 posts, read 5,387,314 times
Reputation: 2655
Quote:
Originally Posted by Omaha Rocks View Post
We need to debunk this myth.

The Altamont Pass Wind Farm was/is an OLD wind farm that, unfortunately, was unknowingly built in a migratory pass. What that means is that there was/is a convergence of several factors leading to bird deaths.

1. They built the wind farm in a migration lane.
2. The OLD wind turbines rotated at a high rate of revolution.



Now... Let's keep several things in mind, regarding the DEAD WRONG assertion that the Altamont Pass Wind Farm represents all wind farms.

1. 30% of deaths of birds under 1-year of age are totally natural, due to their own clumsy nature. This has nothing to do with anything people have made, built, or done.

2. 130-170 million birds per year die as a result of running into electrical power lines. But these power lines are NOT coming from Wind Generators or Wind Farms. They are coming from older energy sources - such as coal and nuclear power plants.

3. 75-80 million birds die each year from hitting cars & trucks on roads.

4. Up to 1 billion birds are believed to die each year as a result of flying into houses and tall buildings.

5. Telecommunication towers kill millions of birds annually. It is documented that one tower, in Eau Claire, Wisconsin claimed over 1,000 birds PER NIGHT for an entire month. More than 30,000 birds died in ONE MONTH as a result of colliding with that ONE TOWER. At this point, there are over 100,000 telecommunication towers in the United States. Let's do the math on this one!!!

6. We have no way of knowing how many birds are killed each year by house cats. But in Wisconsin alone, DNR research indicates that house cats may be killing over 200 million birds each year - in that state alone.



Back to Wind Farms:

1. Modern Wind Generators turn at very low RPMs. This means that - unlike the Altmont Wind Farm - birds are FAR LESS LIKELY to collide with these blades.

2. Wind Farms bury their transmission lines, rather than run them between tall poles. This alone makes wind farms safer than many other energy sources.

3. Research now indicates that an average of less than 2 birds per year - per wind tower - die as a result of colliding with these wind generators. [SIZE=2]Wind generators cause the direct deaths of only 0.01% to 0.02% of all of the birds killed by collisions with man-made structures and activities in the U.S. [/SIZE]

Not to mention the fact that I'm sure many qualified aircraft mechanics can tell you it's no fun to clean bird carcasses (since most are not big enough to bring a plane like Sully's down) out of jet engine fins. That happens all the time.
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Old 09-27-2009, 08:26 AM
 
Location: Washington DC
5,915 posts, read 7,238,125 times
Reputation: 948
Quote:
Originally Posted by CometVoyager View Post
Here are the GPS Coordinates if one would like to see how Blackbone Mountain's Ridge was cut for erection of the inefficient wind turbines!!
All you need to do is copy and past these coordinates on google maps and then zoom in on the green arrow! There is your proof!

39.181643,-79.538194

The hypocrisy of this cave man technology is so dumb. Here the followers of Al Gore and Obama are worried about putting too much CO2 into the atmosphere and they cut down thousands of Oxygen producing trees which suck up the CO2 as one of their nutrients!

These oxymoron wind farms have been nominated to take first place in the Darwin Awards!

What is even funnier the dude who has been previously busted for posing on this board as a fake engineer gave me the coordinates!
No wind turbines at this site, but there are some old mine tailing. Pretty ugly.

Oh BTW it's Backbone Mountain, not Blackbone Mountain. LOL At least get the name right.

Last edited by rlchurch; 09-27-2009 at 08:36 AM..
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Old 09-27-2009, 08:29 AM
 
Location: Washington DC
5,915 posts, read 7,238,125 times
Reputation: 948
What's the coal mining adaptation of John Denver's song, "Almost Level, West Virginia"
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Old 09-27-2009, 08:44 AM
 
39,179 posts, read 40,562,971 times
Reputation: 16065
Quote:
Originally Posted by Omaha Rocks View Post
I think it's an example of taking half-truths and running with them. Partial knowledge and incomplete information can be used as very dangerous weapons.

The same thing is being done by the ravenous anti-ethanol crowd..
Subsidy per million Btu(2007 dollars):

Natural Gas and Petroleum Liquids $0.03
Ethanol/Biofuels $5.72

I'm just throwing the petroleum up there for comparison as it doesn't need subsidy. So what does that equate too?

There's about 130,000 BTU's in 1 gallon of Diesel or 7.6 gallons to 1 million BTU's. In other words we're spending about 75 cents on subsidies for ethanol that could have been derived with no subsidy to oil.

I'll note that report doesn't specify if the corn subsidies farmers receive is included and if it isn't the cost would significantly more.
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Old 09-27-2009, 08:55 AM
 
Location: 125 Years Too Late...
10,851 posts, read 10,521,459 times
Reputation: 9513
Quote:
Originally Posted by CometVoyager View Post
Here are the GPS Coordinates if one would like to see how Blackbone Mountain's Ridge was cut for erection of the inefficient wind turbines!!
All you need to do is copy and past these coordinates on google maps and then zoom in on the green arrow! There is your proof!

39.181643,-79.538194
You need a better example than this. The wind turbines are a bit hard to see from above because of the OPEN PIT MINES and tailings camouflaging them!

Even at that, there are a bunch of photos of that area on Google. Here are some of the nicer ones (it doesn't look like a land laid bare by windmills to me):







Tell you what, if you have some land in the area that you want to discard because of the destruction, I'd be happy to take it off from your hands. Of course, you'd have to practically give me the land, since it's been 'ruined' by the windmills. That's okay though. I'd be willing to wear earplugs and a radiation suit when staying in my 'ground zero' cabin.

Last edited by ChrisC; 09-27-2009 at 09:43 AM..
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