Windmills The Latest Man Made Environmental Hazard! (LED, tax credit, electric)

[GregW]

I see no point is trying to convince CV or sandbar that what I think as compared with what they believe. Observation, research and evaluation have never changed a believers mind.

CV and sandbar are simply wrong.

[my54ford]

Originally Posted by CometVoyager

Thanks sandbar! It is to the point where this so called green movement is so similar to the Jim Jones Cult of the early 1980's whereas the lie is actually their religion!

As I have said in the past. The goal of the "Green" lobby is conservation. They can achieve that goal by simply asking Americans to cut back on energy which most of us won't do. So in order to reach thier goal they force mandates to be put in place that require utilities (both municipal and IO) to install or buy energy from "renewable" resources. Regardlass of the viability of those resources. This in turn causes the Utility to raise rates which in turn forces the customer to conserve......Social Manipulation plan and simple.

[GregW]

A real simple way to encourage the general population to conserve energy is to simply raise prices on the conventional sources and use the money collected to subsidize investment in alternates.

[GraniteStater]

Originally Posted by my54ford

As I have said in the past. The goal of the "Green" lobby is conservation. They can achieve that goal by simply asking Americans to cut back on energy which most of us won't do. So in order to reach thier goal they force mandates to be put in place that require utilities (both municipal and IO) to install or buy energy from "renewable" resources. Regardlass of the viability of those resources. This in turn causes the Utility to raise rates which in turn forces the customer to conserve......Social Manipulation plan and simple.

What you don't realize is that coal plants have hidden health and environmental costs that are not associated with the KWH rate that consumers pay. Coal plants are subsidized by the government to benefit the big coal companies. Nuclear plants are the same way. Without those huge subsidies for big energy wind and solar would be far more cost competitive.

[GregW]

I think nuclear power, with complete fuel recycle, is the green solution to the problem of base load electrical supply. I also think that burning mega tons of coal, even with "clean air' technology, is environmentally damaging, and, at best a short term solution to supplying electricity.

[my54ford]

Originally Posted by GraniteStater

What you don't realize is that coal plants have hidden health and environmental costs that are not associated with the KWH rate that consumers pay. Coal plants are subsidized by the government to benefit the big coal companies. Nuclear plants are the same way. Without those huge subsidies for big energy wind and solar would be far more cost competitive.

Are you friggen kidding me Can you please tell me how to get at these subsidies so I can go to the plant (1000Mw coal) tommarrow and the CEO that he is getting us screwed sheesh the crap some people spew

[sandbarcreek]

Originally Posted by my54ford

As I have said in the past. The goal of the "Green" lobby is conservation. They can achieve that goal by simply asking Americans to cut back on energy which most of us won't do. So in order to reach thier goal they force mandates to be put in place that require utilities (both municipal and IO) to install or buy energy from "renewable" resources. Regardlass of the viability of those resources. This in turn causes the Utility to raise rates which in turn forces the customer to conserve......Social Manipulation plan and simple.

Very true, as the Green Lobby is a disguise for SocioFascist Control of every aspect of our lives! All one has to do is study how Hitler gained his power base! He promised the German People everything just like Santa Clause! Does that sound familiar!

[CometVoyager]

Originally Posted by sandbarcreek

Very true, as the Green Lobby is a disguise for SocioFascist Control of every aspect of our lives! All one has to do is study how Hitler gained his power base! He promised the German People everything just like Santa Clause! Does that sound familiar!

I agree sandbar, as Obama is riding this green horse only to gain power and control, as that is what he and his ideology are all about! Power & Control! In fact if this evil hearted person does get in OMG, what will happen next? Will he give all of our tech to China like Clinton did?

[my54ford]

Originally Posted by CometVoyager

I agree sandbar, as Obama is riding this green horse only to gain power and control, as that is what he and his ideology are all about! Power & Control! In fact if this evil hearted person does get in OMG, what will happen next? Will he give all of our tech to China like Clinton did?

From what I can understand of either sides energy position We should all be prepared to pay more for energy in the future

[GraniteStater]

Originally Posted by my54ford

Are you friggen kidding me Can you please tell me how to get at these subsidies so I can go to the plant (1000Mw coal) tommarrow and the CEO that he is getting us screwed sheesh the crap some people spew

???
It is common knowledge that the biggest recipients of subsidies are the oil, gas, and coal industries. Any alternative energy sources receive far fewer subsidies.
My point is this: We could have already invested huge amounts of money developing and expanding our transmission line infrastructure grid in this country instead of squandering most of it in Iraq. Many states are passing the Renewable Portfolio Standard which REQUIRES utilities to generate a bigger slice of electricity from renewables. I have confidence that wind can provide 25-30% of total electricity needs for several Great Plains and Midwest states. The remaing percentage will come from baseload sources like natural gas, nuclear, and coal. However, we should always strive to lessen our dependence on coal since it is the diritiest way to produce electricity, and clean coal is mostly a falicy.