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Old 09-02-2008, 11:28 AM
5,092 posts, read 9,157,792 times
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Originally Posted by GregW View Post
The adage “Get your own house in order before attempting to order others” is appropriate.
Well spoken, indeed, Greg. Nice turn on the phrasing.

The way I usually put it in the design/board meetings is, "Secure your own oxygen mask first before attempting to assist your children or others." Since most the folks in the meetings have done more than enough business travel, they could do the whole airline pre-flight safety speech by heart and recognize the concept quickly, and it gets a laugh without anyone feeling dumb.

I like the Jesus version -- get the log out of your own eye before getting the sty out of your brother's eye. But it is sort of clumsy and any Jesus ref tends to have religious pre-loading.

From most folks own perspectives just about everyone's view is correct in this thread as far as I can see. And I work this industry. You (Greg) hit it very correct that Capitalist types will not venture forward without likely return on Capital, as well as return of Capital. So they are ok for limited time and limited capacity projects, but you do not want to bet the farm on Wall Street and Vulture Capitalist types.

Truly large projects like Hoover, Grand Coulee, as well as hundreds others including the Tennessee Valley Authority and Rural Electrification would not have existed without direct Government involvement, direction, funding and support. Even the new proposals for new Nukes are based on getting around 80% government funding. That is why the "free market" (phonies) contractors are supporting them.

I have worked in extensive detail in Power Generation Centers all across the US, and the truth is, in general the Government Operations tend to be much more competent, effective and efficient than private industry. No political interest from my end, just what I have seen and dealt with.
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Old 09-08-2008, 09:06 AM
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,336 posts, read 46,228,698 times
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Philip T - I have also worked in the utility industry and am basing my proposals for a fully integrated nuclear fuel system on the engineering reality and not considering politics or the unreasonable fear of nuclear power that was spouted by the conventional fuel industry during the 60's and 70's as they saw a substantial source of their revenue slopping away.

The nuclear Non-Proliferation treaty put an effective ban on non-military Plutonium production in order to keep the nuclear weapons community to a “reasonable” size. What was never mentioned was the fact the all commercial fission reactors produce Plutonium isotopes, (Pu 240 & 241) as part of the process, that are not usable for nuclear bombs. However these isotopes can be used, along with newly mined or recovered, Uranium to make fuel elements that can be reacted in conventional fission reactors. New generation reactors can actually, if designed and fueled properly, make more fissionable material than they consume. This is why we need to develop and install these machines to assure ourselves of a reliable electrical energy future.

We need to replace the carbon fueled boilers with nuclear boilers, preferably on existing sites, to eliminate the tremendous amount of CO2 and other pollutants produced by burning coal and heavy oil. These fuels should be used to make transportation fuel and petroleum products instead of wasted to generate heat.

I think all of this can be done more efficiently and economically by the public sector including, perhaps, a government owned specialty contracting “company” developed to build these specialized facilities.
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Old 09-13-2008, 02:01 PM
Location: America
6,968 posts, read 14,502,481 times
Reputation: 2035
Originally Posted by GregW View Post
I think having the natural monopolies like roads, airports, electric transmission lines owned in common makes a lot of sense. Government ownership provides, among other things avoiding the cost of a profit on the investment, a reduced interest rate because of reduced financial risk and much lower executive salaries. It also allows construction to precede load growth creating a more electrically stable grid.

If you are disteessed by the government "running everyone's lives" how do you feel about the private sector doing the same. I do not want either.
GregW you know I usually love your post but come on. You know darn well American's are to selfish and immature for such a thing
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Old 09-13-2008, 04:26 PM
28,906 posts, read 42,471,600 times
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Originally Posted by my54ford View Post
OK I know this is anecdotal and I don't have it in writeing but I was at a meeting yesterday with VP's from several very large utilities and transmission system operators,, They predict widespread grid collapse by 2012. No one is being allowed to install enough dependable generation to support current loads much less future growth. This mean that utilitys (like the one I work for) will continue to operate old dirty power plants instead of replaceing them with new clean burn technology
I believe it, because everybody whines whenever you build a large power plant of any description anywhere. Let's see.

Hydroelectric power. Nope, can't do that, because you'll destroy ecosystems.

Wind Energy turbines. Nope, because that kills birds and WWWWAAAAAHHHH, you'll spoil my view at the beach.

Coal. You greedy pigs. Don''t you know the carbon footprint of those things?

Oil/Gas. Equally unconscionable.

Nuclear. Didn't you people see the China Syndrome? NIMBY!

Solar. You can't put that out in the middle of the Nevada desert. Gosh, don't you people realize that we haven't studied the effects that those structures will have on all the scorpions and rattlers that live out there?
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