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Old 09-25-2011, 11:04 AM
 
Location: Washington, IN.
12 posts, read 24,033 times
Reputation: 53

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Snofarmer, I respectfully disagree.

Since it's SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers) that sets the testing standards for Octane ratings, the fact of the matter is slightly different.

It's a combination of vapor point, energy the fuel carries and the flash point that matters in a vehicle engine.

The higher the compression ratio the more energy you will realize from the combustion process.

Lower temprature flash point fuels will not take the high compression without detonation, and what you are looking for is COMMANDED ignition.

Also, vapor point is a big issue,
You want the fuel to be atomized droplets, not vapor.
Vapor doesn't burn efficiently, it 'Flashes' and doesn't raise the cylinder tempurature consistantly and evenly as atomized fuel.

Any modern vehicle that can decide to increase timing rates with better fuel (no detonation) will show an increase in fuel economy/mpg since the engine doesn't have to use as much fuel to do the same amount of work.

Higher octane fuels also burn cleaner, less varnish, byproducts, ect. since it's further refined and tighter controlled.
I use Avation Gasoline in my lawn mowers, ect. at the end of the season because it doesn't gum up like regular motor fuel does.
Much more resistant to vapor losses and much cleaner.
Just something there from the mechanics viewpoint...
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Old 09-25-2011, 11:42 AM
 
Location: Northern MN
3,869 posts, read 13,047,045 times
Reputation: 3566
That's fine we can disagree.
I find opposing views to be very informative and interesting.

BUT

My info came from the American Petroleum Institute.
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Old 09-25-2011, 07:26 PM
 
Location: USA (North Springfield, Vermont)
219 posts, read 408,844 times
Reputation: 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by toluca1119 View Post
i have a honda civic 2001 my manual says to put unleaded 86 or higher, but my question is that here where i live we dont have 86 we have 87, 89, 93 which of all these 3 should i use and it would hurt my engine if i use the one that is not recommended, thanks
86 is the MINIMUM. Running 86 with today's engines can cause damage!

The higher the octane, the higher the ignition point. Lower octane can burn hotter.

86 octane has went the way of the dinosaur!
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Old 09-26-2011, 10:56 PM
 
Location: North Pole Alaska
886 posts, read 4,758,077 times
Reputation: 807
Quote:
Originally Posted by RJARRRPCGP View Post
86 is the MINIMUM. Running 86 with today's engines can cause damage!

The higher the octane, the higher the ignition point. Lower octane can burn hotter.

86 octane has went the way of the dinosaur!
That is not true either. There are many places in the higher altitudes that offer 85 as the low grade.

The reason is the higher up you go the less atmospheric pressure there is effectively lowering your dynamic compression ratio.

Think of it this way atmospheric pressure at sea level is 14.7 PSI or 1 bar. At 1 mile up you are down to 12.2 give or take a few tenths.

With that being said if you were at 100 psi of compression at sea level then you would be down to 83 psi at 1 mile up.

There for you can get away with the lower octane fuel.
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Old 03-18-2013, 08:01 AM
 
1 posts, read 3,900 times
Reputation: 10
you have NO idea what you are talking about ,,ha,,, sure if you buy octane booster and rum 105 octane in a ford escort you might burn some valves,,, but any grade sold "over the counter..good gas station is fine,, might even help older cars with pinging and cleaning the valves,,,

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Old 03-19-2013, 11:33 AM
 
Location: North Idaho
22,512 posts, read 28,416,758 times
Reputation: 43353
If you want better gas mileage, buy gas without ethanol in it.
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Old 03-19-2013, 11:50 AM
 
Location: Northern MN
3,869 posts, read 13,047,045 times
Reputation: 3566
No, you will not get better millage using higher octane than what the MFG call for. Octane requirments fallow compression the higher the compression ratio the higher the octane that is required.

Using 86octane will not harm a engine designed to use 86 octane.


Next the higher the octane the hotter and slower the gas burns as it posses more energy

Low octane burns fast and cooler, as it posses less energy.




Quote:
Originally Posted by RJARRRPCGP View Post
86 is the MINIMUM. Running 86 with today's engines can cause damage!

The higher the octane, the higher the ignition point. Lower octane can burn hotter.

86 octane has went the way of the dinosaur!
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Old 03-19-2013, 11:58 AM
 
Location: Northern MN
3,869 posts, read 13,047,045 times
Reputation: 3566
Why doesn't your AV gass gum up the works.
because
1. It lacks any ethanol
2. It does not receive the same additive package automotive gas does.
3. it doesn't vaporize as easily at cool or warm temps because it lacks ethanol that evaporates at a muck lower point.
4.It is very dry and it can harm your small 4 stroke engines.

just something from a reality ,,, stand point

Quote:
Originally Posted by MetalGrinder View Post
Snofarmer,
I use Avation Gasoline in my lawn mowers, ect. at the end of the season because it doesn't gum up like regular motor fuel does.
Much more resistant to vapor losses and much cleaner.
Just something there from the mechanics viewpoint...

Octane Facts

Knock occurs when cylinder pressures are high. It is normal for an engine to ping a little at full throttle
because cylinder pressures are very high at full throttle. Engine knock, however, should not be ignored
since it can result in serious damage to the engine.

High octane gasoline burns slower than low octane gasoline. The slow burn prevents engine knock when
cylinder pressures are high.

If your engine runs well and does not knock or ping on low octane gasoline, there is no advantage in
switching to higher octane gasoline.

If your engine knocks or pings, it does not necessarily mean something is wrong with the gasoline. It could
be a problem with the engine’s electronic control systems, ignition timing or exhaust gas recirculation. On a
high mileage engine, a carbon build-up in the cylinders can increase cylinder pressures and cause knock

Almost all of today’s new cars have fuel-injected engines that need to use gasoline with a detergent additive.
They do not necessarily need high octane gasoline with a detergent additive. Generally, new automobiles
need high octane gasoline
only
if the manufacturer recommends it.

Always follow the auto manufacturer’s octane recommendations in your owner’s manual.
Octane Myths


High octane gasoline improves mileage.
In general, if your car is designed to run on 87 octane gasoline, high octane gasoline will not improve
mileage. If switching to high octane gasoline does improve mileage, you might find that your engine, or its
control systems, need repair.


High octane gasoline gives quicker starting
.
No, it doesn’t.


High octane gasoline increases power.
If your car is designed to run on 87 octane gasoline, you shouldn’t notice any more power on high octane
gasoline. Again, if it does make a noticeable difference, your engine, or the engine’s electronic control
systems, may need repair.


High octane gasoline has been refined more – it is just a better product
.
Additional refining steps are used to increase the octane; however, these additional steps do not necessarily
make the gasoline a “better” product for all engines. They just yield a different blend of hydrocarbons that
burn more slowly. The additional steps also increase the price

http://mn.gov/commerce/weights-and-m...ctaneFacts.pdf

Last edited by snofarmer; 03-19-2013 at 12:15 PM..
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Old 03-19-2013, 01:33 PM
 
Location: DC
6,509 posts, read 6,427,712 times
Reputation: 3112
Quote:
Originally Posted by snofarmer View Post
No, you will not get better millage using higher octane than what the MFG call for. Octane requirments fallow compression the higher the compression ratio the higher the octane that is required.

Using 86octane will not harm a engine designed to use 86 octane.


Next the higher the octane the hotter and slower the gas burns as it posses more energy

Low octane burns fast and cooler, as it posses less energy.
That's not quite true. Electronic ignitions can change the spark advance based upon fuel performance. I get slightly poorer mileage on mid grade gas than premium.
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Old 03-19-2013, 03:21 PM
 
7,281 posts, read 8,833,971 times
Reputation: 11419
What is true is that using the gasoline recommended by the people that made the car is best.

If you are trying to get better fuel economy, trying linking your brain to your right foot.
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