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Old 05-01-2009, 11:58 AM
 
Location: Central Texas
20,389 posts, read 37,697,685 times
Reputation: 22529

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I stand by what I said. Yes, we make an impact, just as the millions of buffalo and passenger pigeons made an impact. Just as the dinosaurs made an impact.

My point was not that we don't make an impact, but there are some who believe, with religious fervor, that it really is All About Us and that we are the sole cause of everything bad on the planet. Ignoring entirely the impact of nature itself.

One thing I've learned from the past is not to swallow what religious fanatics of whatever stripe say whole, but to examine the issues more closely. And not to think that mankind is the be all, end all of creation, either for which all of creation was made for us to use as we wish OR that we are the source of all that's bad in creation and we have the power (and, more importantly, the wisdom) to know how to change it all to suit us. (Which is what this really is about, it's just a contest between the two human-centric viewpoints.)
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Old 05-01-2009, 12:53 PM
 
Location: Washington DC
5,915 posts, read 7,244,659 times
Reputation: 948
Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasHorseLady View Post
I stand by what I said. Yes, we make an impact, just as the millions of buffalo and passenger pigeons made an impact. Just as the dinosaurs made an impact.

My point was not that we don't make an impact, but there are some who believe, with religious fervor, that it really is All About Us and that we are the sole cause of everything bad on the planet. Ignoring entirely the impact of nature itself.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasHorseLady View Post
One thing I've learned from the past is not to swallow what religious fanatics of whatever stripe say whole, but to examine the issues more closely. And not to think that mankind is the be all, end all of creation, either for which all of creation was made for us to use as we wish OR that we are the source of all that's bad in creation and we have the power (and, more importantly, the wisdom) to know how to change it all to suit us. (Which is what this really is about, it's just a contest between the two human-centric viewpoints.)
Again this is just the RW lie. The "religious fanatics" that you refer to are our most presitious and ethical scientific professional societies. Moderator cut: No personal attacks or flaming

Last edited by vec101; 05-01-2009 at 05:59 PM..
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Old 05-01-2009, 01:26 PM
 
Location: Central Texas
20,389 posts, read 37,697,685 times
Reputation: 22529
Well, I'm not Right Wing (nor Left Wing, come to that - like I said, religious fanatics of whatever stripe don't impress me much).

And I'm not speaking of the scientists (or all of them - I'm absolutely sure that scientists are just as prone to the same human failings as the rest of us), I'm speaking of those who swallow hook, line and sinker the idea that everything that happens that isn't to our preference (global warming or cooling, for example) is solely and entirely our fault and that we are the most important thing on the planet, that it all revolves around us (which is, at bottom, what all this is about).

Like I said, we do have an impact. We do need to treat lightly. But that's a far cry from what I see coming from the Global Warming Crowd (the vast majority of which are NOT scientists, just as the vast majority of the Loyal Opposition are not scientists - though there are prestigious and ethical scientists, to use your words, on both sides of the issue - oh, darn, inconvenient, that).
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Old 05-01-2009, 01:44 PM
 
Location: Washington DC
5,915 posts, read 7,244,659 times
Reputation: 948
Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasHorseLady View Post
Well, I'm not Right Wing (nor Left Wing, come to that - like I said, religious fanatics of whatever stripe don't impress me much).

And I'm not speaking of the scientists (or all of them - I'm absolutely sure that scientists are just as prone to the same human failings as the rest of us), I'm speaking of those who swallow hook, line and sinker the idea that everything that happens that isn't to our preference (global warming or cooling, for example) is solely and entirely our fault and that we are the most important thing on the planet, that it all revolves around us (which is, at bottom, what all this is about).

Like I said, we do have an impact. We do need to treat lightly. But that's a far cry from what I see coming from the Global Warming Crowd (the vast majority of which are NOT scientists, just as the vast majority of the Loyal Opposition are not scientists - though there are prestigious and ethical scientists, to use your words, on both sides of the issue - oh, darn, inconvenient, that).
Read the science. It's transparent. If you find somebody's data are wrong, or if their analysis is incorrect get back to us. The reason scientist aren't like your RW friends is that they don't ask you to take anything on faith. It's all laid out for everyone to see and correct if wrong. Spot a problem or stop lying about the scientific work. It's the honest and ethical approach.

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Last edited by vec101; 05-01-2009 at 05:59 PM..
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Old 05-01-2009, 01:47 PM
 
Location: Central Texas
20,389 posts, read 37,697,685 times
Reputation: 22529
Actually, what I am is independent. I hold to no party line, and examine the issues and the candidates individually, based on their merits and lack thereof. It is really annoying of me, I know, because it makes it SO difficult for those who simply must put people, with all their permutations and glorious differences, into little boxes that are supposed to define what they are. It's also threatening to some, who just keep trying to fit me into a box and I just won't go. Drives the Right Wingers just as nuts as it does their counterparts on the Left, FWIW.
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Old 05-01-2009, 01:56 PM
 
Location: Washington DC
5,915 posts, read 7,244,659 times
Reputation: 948
Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasHorseLady View Post
Actually, what I am is independent. I hold to no party line, and examine the issues and the candidates individually, based on their merits and lack thereof. It is really annoying of me, I know, because it makes it SO difficult for those who simply must put people, with all their permutations and glorious differences, into little boxes that are supposed to define what they are. It's also threatening to some, who just keep trying to fit me into a box and I just won't go. Drives the Right Wingers just as nuts as it does their counterparts on the Left, FWIW.
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Last edited by vec101; 05-01-2009 at 05:49 PM..
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Old 05-01-2009, 03:49 PM
 
846 posts, read 1,141,131 times
Reputation: 274
Global Warming is a total fraud. You have to be a complete moron to believe it is true.
The environmentalists should all be taken out and shot. So us people with brains and common sense can live in peace.

Environmentalists caused this depression we are now in. They have destroyed businesses all over the country. Animals are worse off because of groups like peta.

All environmental claims in the past have been proven to be complete frauds. Acid rain, ozone layer, 3 mile island, overpopulation, urban sprawl, Love Canal, Red Dye #2, Kuwati oil fires, New Ice Age, Nuclear Winter, Exxon Valdez, desertification, destruction of rain forests, ddt.....need I go on.

Global Warming was originally caused by sulphur. Then it just switched to carbon dioxide. Now scientists are saying the earth has been cooling for at least 7 years. So let's call it climate change.
It is a total fabrication. Environmentalists are full of contempt for humans and for animals and for nature. They should be illegal.

Look at life expectancy tables before the industrial revolution. Look at them after. It doesn't take a GED to figure out that fossil fuels are good. People are better off with fossil fuels, so are animals and so is the environment. You have to ignore everyting that has actually happened to believe humans are destroying the earth with fossil fuels.
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Old 05-01-2009, 07:01 PM
 
Location: Way South of the Volvo Line
2,777 posts, read 7,114,478 times
Reputation: 2834
Climate change is real. there is plenty of scientific data to confirm it. Whether it is from cyclical geologic/weather patterns or from human intervention is debatable, but there is real documentation to human activity contributing to global warming. But some of the hypotheses are just bizarre. To suggest that the methane output of domestic cattle is responsible to global warming is ludicrous. If you count all the herds of ruminants that have disappeared through the eons, miles of bison, wild horse camels and others you realize that there is no more mammalian biomass i/on this b planet than before. Merely the species have shifted. You cannot convince me that farting cattle is a threat to the ozone. If you used the farting cattle as an example of their unhealthy processed diet, that is another matter.
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Old 05-01-2009, 07:49 PM
 
Location: Washington DC
5,915 posts, read 7,244,659 times
Reputation: 948
Quote:
Originally Posted by [LEFT
tcrackly[/LEFT];8608836]Climate change is real. there is plenty of scientific data to confirm it. Whether it is from cyclical geologic/weather patterns or from human intervention is debatable, but there is real documentation to human activity contributing to global warming. But some of the hypotheses are just bizarre. To suggest that the methane output of domestic cattle is responsible to global warming is ludicrous. If you count all the herds of ruminants that have disappeared through the eons, miles of bison, wild horse camels and others you realize that there is no more mammalian biomass i/on this b planet than before. Merely the species have shifted. You cannot convince me that farting cattle is a threat to the ozone. If you used the farting cattle as an example of their unhealthy processed diet, that is another matter.
You should reconsider this statement for a variety of reasons. While the population of American bison may be down, the population of deer is vastly increased and the population of cattle is huge. Secondly, the methane produced by domestic cattle, as far as I can determine, is substantially higher than what is produced by grass fed bison. And it's not the farts that are important, it's the burbs.
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Old 05-02-2009, 05:40 AM
 
Location: Way South of the Volvo Line
2,777 posts, read 7,114,478 times
Reputation: 2834
You have to think in terms of the evolution of global human society. There are significantly fewer cultures today that once herded yaks, cattle, deer, water buffalo, and other large ruminants. There is a reason why the U.S. is currently the largest beef producer. We fill a global niche for beef products.
You can't convince me that there are more burbing (potentially harmful?) ruminants today than there were 100, 500, or 5000 years ago. There is a global quotient for this formula. The earth has a cumulative capacity for biomass, be it vegetable or animal.
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