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Old 06-11-2009, 04:04 PM
 
1,360 posts, read 1,941,832 times
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really rlchurch...

Quote:
LOL we just voted the mindless idiot out last November.

You lose. Cap and Trade will pass. Wind costs less than brown power TODAY in PJM.
Wait until the other looney group "PETA" starts complaining about windmills killing birds....lol...lol..lol
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Old 06-11-2009, 04:11 PM
 
41,813 posts, read 51,023,289 times
Reputation: 17864
Quote:
Originally Posted by rlchurch View Post
Wind costs less than brown power TODAY in PJM.
You mean welfare electric don't you? You're not paying the true cost of it so your argument fails... again.

I'll ask again, if it's so cheap why the need for mandates and subsidization?

The answer is simple, because it's not cheap and it can't survive in the market on it's own two feet. Your electric is being subsidized and paid for by me and the rest of this country.
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Old 06-11-2009, 05:45 PM
 
Location: Washington DC
5,922 posts, read 8,062,788 times
Reputation: 954
Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
You mean welfare electric don't you? You're not paying the true cost of it so your argument fails... again.

I'll ask again, if it's so cheap why the need for mandates and subsidization?

The answer is simple, because it's not cheap and it can't survive in the market on it's own two feet. Your electric is being subsidized and paid for by me and the rest of this country.
Come talk to me about coal costs after Cap and Trade. Wooot!
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Old 06-11-2009, 06:13 PM
 
41,813 posts, read 51,023,289 times
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Originally Posted by rlchurch View Post
Come talk to me about coal costs after Cap and Trade. Wooot!
If I remember correctly your argument was Cap and Trade would have little effect on the cost of energy. So which is it?
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Old 06-11-2009, 08:37 PM
 
3,773 posts, read 5,321,473 times
Reputation: 6234
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Worley View Post
I would so steal this if it didn't make me look like I'd given the matter entirely too much thought.
You don't have 30 seconds of time to spend with google search??

In times of contemplation (you know when that comes, right?), it is possible to wax poetic on the basic functions of life.

The soil is low in nitrogen, though green the forest fen;
So peeing in the woods, you see, is really not a sin.


© Teak
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Old 06-12-2009, 05:57 AM
 
Location: Washington DC
5,922 posts, read 8,062,788 times
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Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
If I remember correctly your argument was Cap and Trade would have little effect on the cost of energy. So which is it?
No I said shifting to renewables wouldn't cost much, as has been demonstrated this year in PJM. Those who stubbornly keep burning coal will pay for the privileged.
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Old 06-12-2009, 08:03 AM
 
1,048 posts, read 2,387,181 times
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Originally Posted by rlchurch View Post
Come talk to me about coal costs after Cap and Trade. Wooot!
So wind isn't competitive until coal is taxed prohibitively?

That's pretty much what I thought.
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Old 06-12-2009, 08:04 AM
 
41,813 posts, read 51,023,289 times
Reputation: 17864
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Originally Posted by rlchurch View Post
No I said shifting to renewables wouldn't cost much, as has been demonstrated this year in PJM.
It's a demonstration of how subsidization can hide real costs and make people look foolish when they make posts like this. Spell it with me class... S-U-B-S-I-D-Y... as the electric generation increases so will the amount of subsidy required to maintain those levels. It' not reflected in your electric bill because it comes out of your tax bill. Everyone is still paying for it including me and anyone else that is reading this. Everyone in the U.S. is paying your electric bill, proud of that?

I'll ask again if it's so cheap why the need for mandates and massive subsidies?




Quote:
Those who stubbornly keep burning coal will pay for the privileged.
As will you, supply and demand. Look it up. It's very simple economic principal.
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Old 06-12-2009, 08:06 AM
 
41,813 posts, read 51,023,289 times
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Originally Posted by Captain Worley View Post
So wind isn't competitive until coal is taxed prohibitively?
Wind may not even be competitive AFTER it's taxed hence the reason for the "CAP". If a power company goes over their allotment they get hefty fines.
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Old 06-12-2009, 11:58 AM
 
Location: Washington DC
5,922 posts, read 8,062,788 times
Reputation: 954
Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
It's a demonstration of how subsidization can hide real costs and make people look foolish when they make posts like this. Spell it with me class... S-U-B-S-I-D-Y... as the electric generation increases so will the amount of subsidy required to maintain those levels. It' not reflected in your electric bill because it comes out of your tax bill. Everyone is still paying for it including me and anyone else that is reading this. Everyone in the U.S. is paying your electric bill, proud of that?

I'll ask again if it's so cheap why the need for mandates and massive subsidies?
Same reason nuclear needs it. We'll need much less after Cap and Trade levels the playing field.


Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
As will you, supply and demand. Look it up. It's very simple economic principal.
While you are opining about economics please discuss the issue of infra-marginal pricing impacts.
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