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Old 08-07-2009, 09:22 AM
 
Location: I think my user name clarifies that.
8,293 posts, read 23,102,990 times
Reputation: 3888

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teak View Post
I read about a cattle feedlot up near Thief River Falls, Minnesota, that was being fined for stinking up the air. If I farmed nearby, I would certainly look into taking that manure off of their hands cheaply.

I think that the organic versus inorganic argument has been framed wrongly and in typical sound-bite fashion. If we were to go back to the farming style of 100 years ago, food would become very high-priced and American standards of living would drop as we spent more on food, and more people had to become farmers again. Although it sounds like a romantic lifestyle, small farms tend to be food-rich but cash-poor. My father's family survived the Depression quite okay on their family farm, but they couldn't afford new shoes every year.
You are EXACTLY right. Spot on.

The romanticized version that city folks have, of eras-gone-by farm life, is completely inaccurate. And the idea that all crops, livestock and produce were grown on these "always green" pristine little family farms, where birds were singing constantly, is simply not true. The agricultural improvements that have been made in the past 25 years are absolutely mind-boggling!

The way livestock is treated and raised is markedly better.
The way the soil is cared for and built up is markedly better.
The way crops are grown is markedly better.

I grew up on a farm, and farmed after college before changing careers and now living in a city for nearly 25 years. Most urban people simply do NOT have any clue about the realities of rural/farm living. For instance, have you ever been on a farm in the spring, when the frost is coming out of the ground? Whoa Nelly!


That said, I think it'd be GREAT if EVERY urban person who is able, would grow their own garden. Even if it's only a 10'x10' plot, that's something. It would provide fresh produce. But more importantly, it would provide an education.
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Old 08-07-2009, 09:34 AM
 
7 posts, read 10,561 times
Reputation: 28
I get so confuse at the supermarket, which one is organic which one is not... most of the time only the price tag tell me the difference.
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Old 08-07-2009, 09:40 AM
 
Location: I think my user name clarifies that.
8,293 posts, read 23,102,990 times
Reputation: 3888
Quote:
Originally Posted by sendacow View Post
I get so confuse at the supermarket, which one is organic which one is not... most of the time only the price tag tell me the difference.
That won't even tell you. It just tells you which one CLAIMS to be organic.
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Old 08-07-2009, 09:48 AM
 
Location: Miami
537 posts, read 261,249 times
Reputation: 170
I shop at Wholefoods
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Old 08-07-2009, 09:50 AM
 
Location: I think my user name clarifies that.
8,293 posts, read 23,102,990 times
Reputation: 3888
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cairo46 View Post
I shop at Wholefoods
I think those are pretty good.

Most of us are far better off buying at local farmers' markets, where we know those who are bringing the produce. Some of us city slickers also buy whole quarters or halves of beef from farmer friends. That too is a great way of knowing where your food comes from.
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Old 08-08-2009, 10:34 AM
 
Location: Kenmore, WA
7,455 posts, read 6,446,546 times
Reputation: 10803
Sigh. I've stayed away from the forum for awhile, not liking the feelings of hostility I was starting to experience toward ignorant posts. Today, I decided I might try just reading some, and found yours. Obviously, things haven't changed.

One article doesn't turn the tide of evidence that exists showing the benefits of going organic NOT ONLY to those of us that consume organic goods, but to those working in the food industry, as well.

Check out the health records of those living and working in highly agricultural areas. In my native state (MI), a major number of those I went to school with have died from some form of cancer or another. All those that have died lived adjacent to fields growing synthetically grown foods. I guess you would claim that is anecdotal evidence, but it's enough to put me off THAT feed.

Synthetic pesticides and herbicides are damaging our natural ecosystems: air, water, and soil. I first became concerned while driving through the orchards in Eastern WA, and saw the workers driving their tractors in HAZMAT suits with gas masks. Hmmmm. Why do you suppose that might be -- sun exposure?

Having eaten both, I can attest to the improved flavor of the foods. And yes, there are studies that refute the one you've cited. Some have shown as many as 60% more nutrients in organically grown products. Might it be that people find themselves eating more, and becoming obese, because the food they are eating lacks the nutrients their bodies need, even though it still carries ALL the calories it always did?

Still, I respect your right to your own opinion. If you feel strongly enough to bet your life on it, and those of your children -- since they will learn their habits from you, eat hardy. After all, it's only life. Enjoy!
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Old 08-08-2009, 10:47 AM
 
Location: I think my user name clarifies that.
8,293 posts, read 23,102,990 times
Reputation: 3888
Quote:
Originally Posted by LookinForMayberry View Post
Check out the health records of those living and working in highly agricultural areas. In my native state (MI), a major number of those I went to school with have died from some form of cancer or another. All those that have died lived adjacent to fields growing synthetically grown foods. I guess you would claim that is anecdotal evidence, but it's enough to put me off THAT feed.
My grandmother lived on the farm her whole life, and lived to be 100 years old. What's more, she ate bacon, fried eggs and toast every morning for breakfast.

I guess anecdotal evidence is proof positive.


Go ahead and be 100% pro-organic if you wish. But please do some real-life studying about what is REALLY going on in agriculture. I can guarantee you it is NOT what you think it is.
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Old 08-10-2009, 10:24 AM
 
11,256 posts, read 43,199,644 times
Reputation: 14905
IF HR 2749 gets through the Senate in it's current form, we won't be having this discussion any longer.

It will wipe out Farmer's Markets and the small scale organic farming, such as our modest greenhouse, poultry, and red meat production.

Take a look at what's been passed in the House and if you like having choices in your food supply, contact your senator now about this bill. It's not about food safety, it's about control of your food sources. And it mandates the use of chemicals for the production of food to ensure "safety".
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Old 08-10-2009, 12:29 PM
 
Location: I think my user name clarifies that.
8,293 posts, read 23,102,990 times
Reputation: 3888
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunsprit View Post
IF HR 2749 gets through the Senate in it's current form, we won't be having this discussion any longer.

It will wipe out Farmer's Markets and the small scale organic farming, such as our modest greenhouse, poultry, and red meat production.

Take a look at what's been passed in the House and if you like having choices in your food supply, contact your senator now about this bill. It's not about food safety, it's about control of your food sources. And it mandates the use of chemicals for the production of food to ensure "safety".
What do we expect? With a Democrat in the White House, and Democrat-controlled Congress, our days of freedom are over.

It won't be long before we need a permit to pee outside.
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Old 08-10-2009, 01:54 PM
 
9,807 posts, read 13,408,924 times
Reputation: 8158
Quote:
Originally Posted by LookinForMayberry View Post
Sigh. I've stayed away from the forum for awhile, not liking the feelings of hostility I was starting to experience toward ignorant posts. Today, I decided I might try just reading some, and found yours. Obviously, things haven't changed.

One article doesn't turn the tide of evidence that exists showing the benefits of going organic NOT ONLY to those of us that consume organic goods, but to those working in the food industry, as well.

Check out the health records of those living and working in highly agricultural areas. In my native state (MI), a major number of those I went to school with have died from some form of cancer or another. All those that have died lived adjacent to fields growing synthetically grown foods. I guess you would claim that is anecdotal evidence, but it's enough to put me off THAT feed.

Synthetic pesticides and herbicides are damaging our natural ecosystems: air, water, and soil. I first became concerned while driving through the orchards in Eastern WA, and saw the workers driving their tractors in HAZMAT suits with gas masks. Hmmmm. Why do you suppose that might be -- sun exposure?

Having eaten both, I can attest to the improved flavor of the foods. And yes, there are studies that refute the one you've cited. Some have shown as many as 60% more nutrients in organically grown products. Might it be that people find themselves eating more, and becoming obese, because the food they are eating lacks the nutrients their bodies need, even though it still carries ALL the calories it always did?

Still, I respect your right to your own opinion. If you feel strongly enough to bet your life on it, and those of your children -- since they will learn their habits from you, eat hardy. After all, it's only life. Enjoy!
Why isn't there a test that can be given to meat, milk, and other producrs to determine if it is organic or not ?

We already have labs that can detect the smallest amount of antibiotics in mlk ( and the milk gets condemned)

We already are able to detect the smallest traces of antibiotics in animals at slaughter, and the animal/carcas gets condemned.

When people make outlandish claims about the dangers of non-organic/conventional farming products--------why can't they back their claims up with a test of the products that would prove the difference and back up their claim ?

Why is it you are at the mercy of the farmer's word ( and certificate ) that he is certified organic and what he is selling is really organic ?

One would think the organic association would test farm products and severely punish any farmer sellin non-organic as organic.

They don't cuz there is no test that can detect a difference. Thus the organic association relies on their supporters and other organic farmers to use unjustified scare tactics to give them a competitive edge.

----" mind over matter"--
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