Windmill farms (tax credits, pump, energy, hot water)

[Dane_in_LA]

Originally Posted by Omaha Rocks

Personally, I would love to see wind generation technology come to the point where virtually ever consumer and household could buy a generator and produce most of their own electricity.

That turns out to be suboptimal - just like you wouldn't install your own coal-fired generating plant. It is more economical to build one big (and well-placed - clean airflow is super-important) rather than 100 small turbines.

My home country (Natural resources: Fog and wind) has had a thriving undergrowth of wind turbine enthusiasts since the Gvt. lowered taxes on them, but it turns out that farms of big turbines is the way to go. (A small Danish company called Vestas may be familiar to some. Over 20% worldwide market share, which isn't too shabby for a company in a city nobody has heard of.)

[Omaha Rocks]

Originally Posted by Dane_in_LA

That turns out to be suboptimal - just like you wouldn't install your own coal-fired generating plant. It is more economical to build one big (and well-placed - clean airflow is super-important) rather than 100 small turbines.

My home country (Natural resources: Fog and wind) has had a thriving undergrowth of wind turbine enthusiasts since the Gvt. lowered taxes on them, but it turns out that farms of big turbines is the way to go. (A small Danish company called Vestas may be familiar to some. Over 20% worldwide market share, which isn't too shabby for a company in a city nobody has heard of.)

Right, I understand what you're saying.

Really though, what it comes down to is a matter of investment versus return. If there was a "residential" wind generator that I knew would pay for itself in 5 years, then begin making me money, I'd buy it. Unfortunately, that's not the case. In fact, at this point the investment in residential wind generation is very much a losing financial proposition.

[CometVoyager]

Originally Posted by Omaha Rocks

Right, I understand what you're saying.

Really though, what it comes down to is a matter of investment versus return. If there was a "residential" wind generator that I knew would pay for itself in 5 years, then begin making me money, I'd buy it. Unfortunately, that's not the case. In fact, at this point the investment in residential wind generation is very much a losing financial proposition.

Exactly and Ditto on that one, as unfortunately even with the subsidies you get from the Feds it still would not be cost effective.

Even less cost effective and more damaging for the environment are windfarms.

However, you can actually install your own wind turbine and that would save you a lot of $#$$$$$$ and if you shop you may be able to get some good deals. The mitigating factors would of course be the noise and if it pisses off your neighbor or how much of a line you have to draw, as the longer the line the less efficient.

[Dane_in_LA]

Originally Posted by CometVoyager

Even less cost effective and more damaging for the environment are windfarms.

Large-scale turbines are considerably more cost effective than residential wind turbines. Wind farms are the logical extension of this principle. This is simply an area where smaller isn't better.

Small-scale is great for mobile and off-the-grid installations, but if you're on the grid, you get a better ROI by having a share in a larger turbine than by building your own.

[Ode]

I think they are interesting. Certainly they aren't as polluting or as unattractive as oil wells, and I have seen vast fields of those. We do need more power, and while wind can't supply all of our country's power needs it can surely reduce the need for fossil fuels. So that makes them a good thing in my book. And no, if there was a wind farm in my area it would not bother me in the slightest.

[marmac]

Originally Posted by Ode

I think they are interesting. Certainly they aren't as polluting or as unattractive as oil wells, and I have seen vast fields of those. We do need more power, and while wind can't supply all of our country's power needs it can surely reduce the need for fossil fuels. So that makes them a good thing in my book. And no, if there was a wind farm in my area it would not bother me in the slightest.

If they came thru my area, I would hope my land would line up so a couple of them would be on it.

A friend of mine says 3 will be on their productive farmland.

They will recieve $5,000 per year per windmill ( $15,000 annually )

[CometVoyager]

Originally Posted by Ode

I think they are interesting. Certainly they aren't as polluting or as unattractive as oil wells, and I have seen vast fields of those. We do need more power, and while wind can't supply all of our country's power needs it can surely reduce the need for fossil fuels. So that makes them a good thing in my book. And no, if there was a wind farm in my area it would not bother me in the slightest.

Ode, you can have your 100,000 acre wind farm but I would rather stick with my oil well, as an average oil well would produce significantly more energy than your 100, 000 acre wind farm. It would also require lest land and it would be less expensive to operate. We have enough Oil, Coal and Hydro in this country to power 300+ million people for the next 1000 years.

Wind Power even with all the government hand outs still is so expensive and uses way too much land to produce just a drop in the bucket of power compared to what our needs are.

[Ode]

So is there some reason why we can't have both? Why the rabid tone regarding wind power?

[Teak]

Originally Posted by Ode

So is there some reason why we can't have both? Why the rabid tone regarding wind power?

Ode, I want to introduce you to marmac/CometVoyager.

Careful what you say about wind, or this tag team will get you!!

[CptnRn]

As a sailboat owner I find that wind and solar power to be very attractive. It is possible to live with very modest power needs on a sailboat, and to supply most of those needs with solar and wind power. If you live in an area that has fairly reliable winds and is not too overcast most of the year, you can learn to live on only the power you produce with wind and solar. Even if your power needs exceed what you can produce with wind and solar, you can still greatly supplement your needs with these two resources. One of the huge benefits of wind and solar is that they are clean. They are some of the few ways you can produce your own energy on site without producing any pollution from burning fuels.

Wind and solar make a huge amount of sense for someone who wants to live off of the grid, or who needs a modest amount of power in an isolated location, where there is no grid or gas line to tap into.