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Old 03-19-2008, 04:46 PM
 
Location: Rockford MN
72 posts, read 228,973 times
Reputation: 39

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Quote:
Originally Posted by tyciol View Post
In a lot of cases when you buy "recycled" toletries you are mislead. It is actually the cardboard centre that is recycled, and the paper itself is not. You have to be careful as corporations love to throw naturalistic terminology to make sales. This is actually a problem with a lot of 'organic' things. Generally the only way to know if something is organic is to grow it yourself.
Yeah, recycled toilet paper doesn't do it for me.
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Old 03-19-2008, 06:03 PM
 
Location: The Woods
16,935 posts, read 22,198,202 times
Reputation: 9019
Organic is cheap when you grow it yourself. Up until now I've been limited in my space to grow things and have been stuck with a lot of store bought stuff, but with the land I bought and will move to as soon as it's paid off in a year or so, I'll be able to grow all of my own vegetables and some fruits (enough fruit for me though). Not relying on chemicals to produce a crop is much cheaper. Knowing proper rotation methods, green manures, companion planting, etc., takes more time and skill than most factory farmers want to though. I'll also be raising a little livestock and keeping some bees, so that'll help with things, with fertilizer and pollination (and will provide a natural source of sugar, the bees, and given the chemicals used to grow sugar cane now I'll be glad to have that honey).

I think the differences though between organic and modern factory-farmed stuff are the results of many thing, including chemicals used, and varieties used. Even if you use chemicals on traditional, open-pollinated varieties of items, like, for example brandywine tomatoes (my favorite tomato), they'll come out better than most of the hybrids grown by big companies that produce high yields of good looking and disease-free but bland fruit. Take away the chemicals and the taste is better, I've noticed. It seems mor obvious with cherry tomatoes. The ones in the stores lack flavor. Commercial conventional growers favor high yield and uniformity more than flavor and nutrition.

Oh and MSG is one of the great evils put in food, that stuff could make a person think garbage tastes good. Well, then again, they already do that don't they, a lot of foods sold at the stores being very poor in nutrition. And the stuff has so many possible negative effects on people, from headaches to stomach or chest pains to brain cancer long term. Not something I'd trust...
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Old 03-19-2008, 07:28 PM
 
Location: Boise
2,008 posts, read 2,971,858 times
Reputation: 731
Quote:
Originally Posted by tyciol View Post
These are very misleading reasons. For one, do you even know what this junk added to increase appetite actually is or how to detect it? Is it impossible for natural foods to increase appetite? Surely not every man-altered food would increase hunger, not all corporations are jackals.

Organic things are usually more expensive because using chemicals in farming is a less costly way of removing pests or bacteria which are present in mass farming (cheaper per-cow than spacious arming).

In a lot of cases when you buy "recycled" toletries you are mislead. It is actually the cardboard centre that is recycled, and the paper itself is not. You have to be careful as corporations love to throw naturalistic terminology to make sales. This is actually a problem with a lot of 'organic' things. Generally the only way to know if something is organic is to grow it yourself.

I can agree with a lot of this. I kind of think one reason organic stuff is more expensive is 75% sales tactic. Companies know that someone will pay more for something organic.

That's what raggs me the most; any time something is better for the consumer or the environment, corners are cut and they try to make a buck on it from every angle possible.

I agree, the best way to assure it's organic is to do it yourself!
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Old 03-20-2008, 08:30 AM
 
Location: Fort Mill, SC (Charlotte 'burb)
4,730 posts, read 17,763,523 times
Reputation: 1008
Quote:
Originally Posted by dennis s View Post
correction: DEXTROSE turns of receptors in the brain that tell you that you are full and to stop eating. ...........


high frutcose corn syrup is plain ol' sugar. Eating sugar tells your pancrease that you have enough energy and it stops releasing insulin. Hence a crash when the sugar gets quickly burned of being that it is a simple carbohydrate.
HFCS is not plain old sugar. It's a chemically refined glucose-frocuse mixture. Your body actual thinks HFCS is fat, not sugar, and stores it as such, which is why it is not good.

I think most people just don't understand what "organic" means and the labeling/certification process. I used to work for Earth Fare, which is a NC based chain similar to Whole Foods, so I had to learn what all of that stuff means. Basically organic means "no synthetic (man-made) chemicals"; everyhting used for organic farming is found in nature.

It gets tricky when you buy something such as tortilla chips made wiht organic corn, but the whole product is not organic. Only products 95% organic (not including non-organic ingredients such as salt, water) can use the USDA Organic seal and 100% organic products can carry the USDA 100% Organic Seal, so these are what to look for if you really want organic products.

Last edited by groove1; 03-20-2008 at 08:47 AM..
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Old 03-26-2008, 03:14 PM
 
3,367 posts, read 10,039,235 times
Reputation: 4166
I was told (by someone who works in the heart of organic farm supplies) that the reason the prices of organic foods are higher is simply supply and demand.

The costs of buying, storing and spraying crops disappear when farmers 'go organic' so although yields might be lower, the overall cost of production drops.

However in many parts of the country there is not enough organic food to meet supply - hence prices are higher.

Many farmers want to start organic production, but find the first step hard - leaving agricultural land chemical-free for 3 years. That is the stumbling-block which needs to be removed, in order for more farms to go organic, increase supply and bring down the prices.
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Old 03-26-2008, 04:15 PM
 
Location: Wherabouts Unknown!
7,764 posts, read 16,835,798 times
Reputation: 9316
In the long run, organic food is well worth the extra initial cost. Down the road, those who continue to consume all of that chemically grown crap will be paying some very big out of pocket expenses for surgery and drugs to combat the diseases caused from consuming so many harmful chemicals. The higher cost of organic food will pale in comparison! Eating healthier, organically grown food greatly increases ones chances of staying healthy and avoiding the B-I-G out of pocket medical bills.
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Old 03-27-2008, 07:50 AM
 
13,140 posts, read 36,663,566 times
Reputation: 12120
Well not all of us are vegans/vegetarians as i do eat meat !! I wish i could buy the range fed beef but at 5.49 lb compared to 1.89 lb for the standard it's kinda tough especially when i add all the other organic stuff like frozen Blueberries or frozen Brocolli etc...

One thing that is close in price are organic eggs compared to standard eggs so i eat alot of them. I do try to support the local co ops when i can.....
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Old 03-27-2008, 03:09 PM
 
Location: Maine
6,048 posts, read 11,403,840 times
Reputation: 5504
I'm a small farm owner. We grow all of our fruit and vegetables without synthetics. We compost to the extreme, rotate crops, use green manure and natural pest control in many forms among other things. We keep ducks, chickens and turkeys as slug and grasshopper control, as meat to feed us and for their manure to compost. Reading these thoughts and opinions has been interesting.

A couple of things to keep in mind -

Modern fertilizers contain petroleum. Petroleum prices are sky high. The fertilizer my Kansas wheat farmer friend payed $90 a ton for last year is now $900 a ton. That's no exaggeration. Some farmers are paying $1,000 a ton. My Kansas friend will not be fertilizing her wheat this year. If you buy organic and naturally grown locally and knock out the average 1,500 miles worth of transportation costs you should be able to pay less. If you're not paying less for local organic ask why. I don't have the kind of fertilizer costs modern farmers have.

The nutritional values on locally grown food, whether organic or not, should be higher. The food doesn't have to be picked before it's ripe so that it withstands shipping. Ripe food has had time to develop its full nutrition. As soon as you pick something the nutritional value starts to decline. It's my experience that the better you supply your body with real nutrients the less it will crave and be hungry.

Quote:
Basically organic means "no synthetic (man-made) chemicals"; everyhting used for organic farming is found in nature.
It's much more than that. It's crop rotation, amendments such as compost that have been created in specific ways (turned x number of times, etc), soil maintenance and specific amounts of time on pasture for animals. It's also not using some non-synthetic chemicals. For example, I'd use a specific synthetic before I'd use rotenone. Rotenone is organic but it's dangerous. I don't think it's allowed by any, or many, certifying agencies now.

When you're buying organic food I recommend looking at the label. "Packaged for..." doesn't mean "grown by." Libby's organic green beans are imported from China. Organic free range eggs don't necessarily come from birds that scratched in dirt, ate grass and insects and spent time in the sun. It only means there's a door to the outside and that they were fed organic food. Cage free only means no cage, not no over crowding. It is definitely better, but is crowded, walking in manure and breathing ammonia good enough?

I can't say my farm is organic because I won't certify (that's another thread) but I don't use synthetics or dangerous natural products and do follow BMPs. I do keep it open to the public so that my customers can see where their food comes from and how it was grown. I'd buy green beans grown with Miracle Grow from a local source before I'd trust organic anything from China. You can't know too much about your food.
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Old 03-27-2008, 03:20 PM
 
Location: Fort Mill, SC (Charlotte 'burb)
4,730 posts, read 17,763,523 times
Reputation: 1008
He/she is right about what organic is "supposed" to mean. Organic also means using living things found in nature to produce and grown food. Everyone has lost site of what the true definition of "organic" is since so many people are using it now. It's also why substances which are not living and never were cannot be considered "organic", such as h20, sea salt, baking soda, etc. They are all found in nature, yet none are organic or can be considered as or lableled organic.

As far as found in nature, yes, there are a lot things found in nature that will harm or kill you if you ingest them (certain berries, mushrooms, roots and leaves of certain plants, apple seeds if you eat enough of them, etc).

When I was working at Earth Fare, they carried organic soybeans from China. I'm not too sure about hose.
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