Meat's not Green (greenhouse gases, research, 2009, environmentally)

[Omaha Rocks]

Originally Posted by TexasHorseLady

mg420, do you have a cite for what's obviously quoted material? (And, as an aside, do you have permission to publish from the copyright holder?) I'd like to go to the source.

I agree that some of the behaviors shown on that video are egregious. I do not agree that they are representative of the industry as a whole, and I've already noted that there's an important discrepancy related to that video - an "unidentified USDA inspector" is supposedly shown advising how to avoid being written up (though the more I think about it, isn't that part of their job, to advise on how to avoid violations by not doing the things that are violations?) rather than shutting them down for violations, and yet records show that they were shut down three separate times in the months immediately preceding shutting them down entirely. I'd say that's a pretty big contradiction, myself, that jumped out at me right away and gives me pause and makes me look at the whole thing with a closer eye. Are there problems? Yep, absolutely. Did the USDA act? It would appear that they did. Is this justification for everyone not eating meat? Not even close, unless you want to similarly argue that the fact that there are people who abuse their children means that everyone should stop having children, or that some people abuse their spouses and significant others means that everyone should avoid the opposite sex.

You've pointed out a few of the more blatant contradictions. But there are so many flagrant lies, distortions and "selective editings" in that stupid video that it simply needs to be flushed, right along with my huge old morning dump.

How anybody can be so stupid as to believe videos like that is beyond me.

[Omaha Rocks]

Originally Posted by KoZmiC NinJa

I read this thread with some interest as a Veggie for 32 years.
I also advocate for PETA and other pro-animal groups, volunteer
give money etc to animal causes. That said, I dont chastise anyone
for what they eat. Im disgusted by it, but I can keep it to myself,
always have. This issue of "forcing" an agenda you speak is suffered
by the average vegetarian constantly throughout their life. While you
can turn off your computer and walk away from this thread, a
veggie hears the "you arent getting enuff protein", "Thats unhealthy"
stuff throughout their lives in many different places, from doctors
offices to well meaning relatives. Even ordering a veggie specific dish
in a restaurant can be painful. Anecdotally, at 50, I am healthier,
smell better an look a decade younger than any carnivore of my age
I know. IF those are negatives of not eating flesh, I'll take two

Do you, as a vegetarian, feel superior to people who are not vegetarians?

This post makes it seem as though you do.

[KoZmiC NinJa]

Originally Posted by Omaha Rocks

Do you, as a vegetarian, feel superior to people who are not vegetarians?

This post makes it seem as though you do.

There are many meat eaters who are smarter than
me, make more money than me, and are cooler than
me, but relative to health, yes, I think I am superior
in that aspect. Morally too.

[TexasHorseLady]

You advocate for PETA, and you actually think they're a "pro-animal" group? You should hear what the folks that I know who actually work in the trenches in animal welfare have to say about PETA - they can barely say the name without spitting, because PETA, with its total disregard for the truth (stated by Ingrid Newkirk herself for publication) and the other issues that PETA has, makes it much, much harder for people actually working for the good of their animals to be taken seriously and accomplish the goal of, you know, the welfare of animals.

Much like people who jump on the allergy bandwagon for the attention, and thus make it harder for people with real, serious allergies to be taken seriously. PETA, and its supporters, have a LOT to answer for there since they actually make it LESS likely that animals will be getting what they need. (And let's don't even go into taking puppies from rescues promising good homes and killing them within hours and throwing them in dumpsters.)

As for your personal evaluation of how well being a vegetarian works for you (thinly veiled proselytizing there), as it happens, I've been an omnivore leaning towards carnivore for most of my 60 years, and I, too, appear to be considerably younger than my actual age (thanks, Mom! genetics plays a big part and none of us can claim credit for that). My particular genetic makeup is such that if I eat a vegetarian diet, no matter how carefully balanced, I get sick. If I eat a high-protein, meat-based diet, I'm healthy as a horse. That's what anyone who pushes their particular dietary preferences on anyone else on the basis of "Look how healthy I am! You should eat what I do!" (emphasis on I quite intentional) fails to take into account - not everyone is just like them, and each of our bodies is different with different needs. I'm on one end of the Bell Curve, and you're on the other, and most folks fall somewhere in between and would not be as healthy as we are on either of our diets.

If you think that those who eat meat can just walk away from the computer and not be faced with vegan/vegetarian proselytizing, you really aren't in touch with reality beyond your own nose or you don't recognize it for what it is because it's promoting your own preferred lifestyle. Trust me, from someone on the other side of the table, there's plenty of it out there and has been for a couple/three decades now, at least.

I've never told someone that they look unhealthy because of their vegetarian diet (though I've thought it - I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of vegetarians that I know of that actually thrive on such a diet, but there are numerous ones who claim to be thriving when anyone with an eye can see they're in poor health - I assume that either a vegetarian diet isn't the right one for them or that they're not being as careful to get all the nutrients they need as one needs to do when eating vegetarian (or, especially, vegan), or some combination of the two, but I certainly don't tell them that any more than you tell people you think they're disgusting. In fact, when having a party involving food, if vegetarians are attending, I make two versions of the same main course, one with meat, one without. Do you do the same when having guests of both persuasions?

[marmac]

NinJa--------Then I guess Jesus wasn't very moral.

He is quoted in the bible as saying how the guy slaughtered his finest cattle to prepare for a feast to honor the return of that father's prodigal son.

[Omaha Rocks]

Originally Posted by KoZmiC NinJa

There are many meat eaters who are smarter than
me, make more money than me, and are cooler than
me, but relative to health, yes, I think I am superior
in that aspect. Morally too.

Hahahahaha! No you're not.

[mg420]

Originally Posted by marmac

NinJa--------Then I guess Jesus wasn't very moral.

He is quoted in the bible as saying how the guy slaughtered his finest cattle to prepare for a feast to honor the return of that father's prodigal son.

"I am come to end the sacrifices and feasts of blood; and if ye cease not offering and eating of flesh and blood, the wrath of God shall not cease from you; even as it came to your fathers in the wilderness, who lusted for flesh, and did sat to their content, and were filled with rottenness, and the plague consumed them." (See Numbers 11:32-34) [6]

[Omaha Rocks]

Originally Posted by mg420

"I am come to end the sacrifices and feasts of blood; and if ye cease not offering and eating of flesh and blood, the wrath of God shall not cease from you; even as it came to your fathers in the wilderness, who lusted for flesh, and did sat to their content, and were filled with rottenness, and the plague consumed them." (See Numbers 11:32-34) [6]

Nice quote...

Couple little problems here, though...

1. It's not New Testament, therefore not Jesus.
2. You need a little context. The context of those verses have NOTHING to do with what people were eating.


Hahahahaha!!!! Too funny!

[KoZmiC NinJa]

Originally Posted by TexasHorseLady

You advocate for PETA, and you actually think they're a "pro-animal" group? You should hear what the folks that I know who actually work in the trenches in animal welfare have to say about PETA - they can barely say the name without spitting, because PETA, with its total disregard for the truth (stated by Ingrid Newkirk herself for publication) and the other issues that PETA has, makes it much, much harder for people actually working for the good of their animals to be taken seriously and accomplish the goal of, you know, the welfare of animals.

Much like people who jump on the allergy bandwagon for the attention, and thus make it harder for people with real, serious allergies to be taken seriously. PETA, and its supporters, have a LOT to answer for there since they actually make it LESS likely that animals will be getting what they need. (And let's don't even go into taking puppies from rescues promising good homes and killing them within hours and throwing them in dumpsters.)

As for your personal evaluation of how well being a vegetarian works for you (thinly veiled proselytizing there), as it happens, I've been an omnivore leaning towards carnivore for most of my 60 years, and I, too, appear to be considerably younger than my actual age (thanks, Mom! genetics plays a big part and none of us can claim credit for that). My particular genetic makeup is such that if I eat a vegetarian diet, no matter how carefully balanced, I get sick. If I eat a high-protein, meat-based diet, I'm healthy as a horse. That's what anyone who pushes their particular dietary preferences on anyone else on the basis of "Look how healthy I am! You should eat what I do!" (emphasis on I quite intentional) fails to take into account - not everyone is just like them, and each of our bodies is different with different needs. I'm on one end of the Bell Curve, and you're on the other, and most folks fall somewhere in between and would not be as healthy as we are on either of our diets.

If you think that those who eat meat can just walk away from the computer and not be faced with vegan/vegetarian proselytizing, you really aren't in touch with reality beyond your own nose or you don't recognize it for what it is because it's promoting your own preferred lifestyle. Trust me, from someone on the other side of the table, there's plenty of it out there and has been for a couple/three decades now, at least.

I've never told someone that they look unhealthy because of their vegetarian diet (though I've thought it - I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of vegetarians that I know of that actually thrive on such a diet, but there are numerous ones who claim to be thriving when anyone with an eye can see they're in poor health - I assume that either a vegetarian diet isn't the right one for them or that they're not being as careful to get all the nutrients they need as one needs to do when eating vegetarian (or, especially, vegan), or some combination of the two, but I certainly don't tell them that any more than you tell people you think they're disgusting. In fact, when having a party involving food, if vegetarians are attending, I make two versions of the same main course, one with meat, one without. Do you do the same when having guests of both persuasions?

Im not going to go to war with you or any of the carnivores here....
I just expressed my opinion. All of my friends are Fleshies and they
are great people. But, I am still adament in my beliefs, which I
usually ( ) keep to myself, anonymous internetting excluded.

For me, I got into Veggie-ism because I had to do something to
shake off the 70's which included too much drug and alcohol use
at a young age. It just agreed with MY, me personally's - system.
I stuck with it and here I am . The moral stuff is that I dont think
anything should be killed for the sake of gratuitous self indulgence.
Realistically, pppl might not believe it in this age of uber-consumption,
food, stuff, Tv, etc etc, but you can get by on very little.
There is no need to kill a living thing just because its tasty.
I also dont drive cars or shop at WALMART to keep my opinion in perspective....
Oh well....I digress though.
[/rant] over

Just give thanks for the stuff that is making your life happy
and try to promote a little tolerance and peace this holiday
and thats all this PETA-rd has to say !

[Omaha Rocks]

Originally Posted by KoZmiC NinJa

The moral stuff is that I dont think
anything should be killed for the sake of gratuitous self indulgence.

...including fruit & vegetables, right?