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Old 11-23-2009, 08:40 AM
 
260 posts, read 501,310 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Omaha Rocks View Post
Nice quote...

Couple little problems here, though...

1. It's not New Testament, therefore not Jesus.
2. You need a little context. The context of those verses have NOTHING to do with what people were eating.


Hahahahaha!!!! Too funny!
Epiphanius quotes the Gospel to the Hebrews where Jesus has a confrontation with the high priest. Jesus chastises the leadership saying, "I am come to end the sacrifices and feasts of blood; and if ye cease not offering and eating of flesh and blood, the wrath of God shall not cease from you; even as it came to your fathers in the wilderness, who lusted for flesh, and did sat to their content, and were filled with rottenness, and the plague consumed them."
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Old 11-23-2009, 08:45 AM
 
Location: Central Texas
20,385 posts, read 37,689,162 times
Reputation: 22518
I find it interesting that you say that it's for "gratuitous self indulgence" or because it's "tasty"? How about because we're designed, by nature or deity, your choice, as omnivores, and like the other omnivores, we eat other creatures in accordance with that design? Please, please, PLEASE tell me you're not one of those who abuse their pets (dogs and cats) by requiring them to become vegetarian, too? What about lions and tigers and bears, oh, my! Are they disgusting because they gratuitously kill other creatures because they're tasty?

If you truly believe that we are one with creation and with the other animals, then you should realize that we each have our own place in the overall design, and what a gross insult it is to those creatures who would never think of stepping outside of their own place in that design to pretend superiority to them by doing so.
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Old 11-23-2009, 08:57 AM
 
Location: Central Texas
20,385 posts, read 37,689,162 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mg420 View Post
Epiphanius quotes the Gospel to the Hebrews where Jesus has a confrontation with the high priest. Jesus chastises the leadership saying, "I am come to end the sacrifices and feasts of blood; and if ye cease not offering and eating of flesh and blood, the wrath of God shall not cease from you; even as it came to your fathers in the wilderness, who lusted for flesh, and did sat to their content, and were filled with rottenness, and the plague consumed them."

When I first read the Bible, my father, a preacher, insisted that I read it first word to last. Why? Because he most adamantly did NOT want me to engage in the practice that is so common of pulling out individual verses to prove whatever I wanted to prove, steadfastly ignoring the verses before and after.

That was from the Essenes, correct? So, technically, not from the Bible at all, but from the Dead Sea Scrolls (if, indeed, the Essenes wrote the Dead Sea Scrolls - but that argument is WAY off topic for this thread)?

Do you have a context for that quote? Not your interpretation, but the entire chapter and verse. Epiphanius, by the way, wasn't born until some 300 years after Christ, so he's not exactly quoting from personal observation, one would think.
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Old 11-23-2009, 09:11 AM
 
Location: Central Texas
20,385 posts, read 37,689,162 times
Reputation: 22518
Found the following, written by Paul to Timothy:

1 Timothy 4

1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
2Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
3Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
4For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
5For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.
6If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained.
7But refuse profane and old wives' fables, and exercise thyself rather unto godliness.
8For bodily exercise profiteth little: but godliness is profitable unto all things, having promise of the life that now is, and of that which is to come.
9This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation.
10For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
11These things command and teach.
12Let no man despise thy youth; but be thou an example of the believers, in word, in conversation, in charity, in spirit, in faith, in purity.
13Till I come, give attendance to reading, to exhortation, to doctrine.
14Neglect not the gift that is in thee, which was given thee by prophecy, with the laying on of the hands of the presbytery.
15Meditate upon these things; give thyself wholly to them; that thy profiting may appear to all.
16Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee."


Now, I may not agree with everything Paul has to say, but if we're going to play the "religious quote to prove a point" game, I can play - I just include the whole thing.
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Old 11-23-2009, 09:13 AM
 
Location: I think my user name clarifies that.
8,293 posts, read 23,100,440 times
Reputation: 3888
Quote:
Originally Posted by mg420 View Post
Epiphanius quotes the Gospel to the Hebrews where Jesus has a confrontation with the high priest. Jesus chastises the leadership saying, "I am come to end the sacrifices and feasts of blood; and if ye cease not offering and eating of flesh and blood, the wrath of God shall not cease from you; even as it came to your fathers in the wilderness, who lusted for flesh, and did sat to their content, and were filled with rottenness, and the plague consumed them."
Hahahaha!!! Don't even try to dig your way out of the crap hole you're in. Just admit that your quote from the Old Testament was really dumb, and taken completely out of context.


And by the way, the "Gospel of The Hebrews" isn't even in the Bible.
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Old 11-23-2009, 09:14 AM
 
260 posts, read 501,310 times
Reputation: 229
Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasHorseLady View Post
I find it interesting that you say that it's for "gratuitous self indulgence" or because it's "tasty"? How about because we're designed, by nature or deity, your choice, as omnivores, and like the other omnivores, we eat other creatures in accordance with that design? Please, please, PLEASE tell me you're not one of those who abuse their pets (dogs and cats) by requiring them to become vegetarian, too? What about lions and tigers and bears, oh, my! Are they disgusting because they gratuitously kill other creatures because they're tasty?

If you truly believe that we are one with creation and with the other animals, then you should realize that we each have our own place in the overall design, and what a gross insult it is to those creatures who would never think of stepping outside of their own place in that design to pretend superiority to them by doing so.
Dogs Can EAT Vegan Too

About James | Vegan Dog Nutrition Association
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Old 11-23-2009, 09:47 AM
 
Location: Central Texas
20,385 posts, read 37,689,162 times
Reputation: 22518
Oh, please. Do you have even a clue about the difference between a vegetarian, an omnivore, and a carnivore? (Also, do you have a clue what a "non-biased" site is versus a "very biased with a very obvious agenda" site? Could you give me something that is NOT a site by a vegetarian - and, in one case, a professional vegetarian, at that?)

Yes, dogs are omnivores, in part because in bringing down and killing and eating prey animals, the stomach and its contents are eaten. My own dogs will eat grass if they have an upset stomach, but they certainly can't survive on such a diet, though my horses and cows do admirably on it. The dogs don't even try. Left to their own devices, my dogs have been known to bring home a rabbit (as have the larger cats), all on their own).

As I said, it's abuse of animals to try to force an animal that is naturally towards the carnivorous side of being an omnivore to be a vegetarian. Though the idea that it's not is certainly marketable to a certain segment of the population.
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Old 11-23-2009, 11:29 AM
 
Location: 95468
1,383 posts, read 2,113,553 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mg420 View Post
do you really think that farmers are doing animals a favor by raising them for slaughter?

Farm Sanctuary | Watkins Glen, NY (http://www.farmsanctuary.org/issues/factoryfarming/ - broken link)
Such a waste of cow life. If only she could have gone to Cow State who knows ......................
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Old 11-24-2009, 02:28 AM
 
Location: Decatur, IL
127 posts, read 316,013 times
Reputation: 152
Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasHorseLady View Post

As I said, it's abuse of animals to try to force an animal that is naturally towards the carnivorous side of being an omnivore to be a vegetarian. Though the idea that it's not is certainly marketable to a certain segment of the population.
I feed my dogs vegan food, but I don't call them vegan because one requires joint supplements made from beef liver, and because he likes to try and eat the ground hogs that dig in the yard. I'm not trying to make them be anything they're not, I did research and picked out a good dry food for them, which they've been eating for over a year and are perfectly healthy (the joint problems are old age). If I wasn't able to find a high quality vegan food, or if they didn't like it or seemed to suffer ill health from it, they wouldn't be eating it.

I also have three cats, and because cats are different, their dry food is meat based and they share a can of high quality wet food a week. I don't particularly enjoy opening a smelly can, but if it really bothered me that much I wouldn't have cats.

I realize that this isn't really the subject of the thread, but I wanted to give a sane response to your comment.
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Old 12-10-2009, 08:11 AM
 
Location: Nort Seid
5,288 posts, read 7,586,675 times
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interesting:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/31/op...iman.html?_r=1

To a rancher like me, who raises cattle, goats and turkeys the traditional way (on grass), the studies show only that the prevailing methods of producing meat — that is, crowding animals together in factory farms, storing their waste in giant lagoons and cutting down forests to grow crops to feed them — cause substantial greenhouse gases. It could be, in fact, that a conscientious meat eater may have a more environmentally friendly diet than your average vegetarian.

So what is the real story of meat’s connection to global warming? Answering the question requires examining the individual greenhouse gases involved: carbon dioxide, methane and nitrous oxides.
Carbon dioxide makes up the majority of agriculture-related greenhouse emissions. In American farming, most carbon dioxide emissions come from fuel burned to operate vehicles and equipment. World agricultural carbon emissions, on the other hand, result primarily from the clearing of woods for crop growing and livestock grazing. During the 1990s, tropical deforestation in Brazil, India, Indonesia, Sudan and other developing countries caused 15 percent to 35 percent of annual global fossil fuel emissions.
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