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Old 11-25-2009, 09:58 AM
 
39,246 posts, read 40,617,533 times
Reputation: 16091

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chi-town Native View Post
go read the link. Scientists who pursue truth in a peer-reviewed envrionment are not on the same plane as people who have golden parachutes and 7 figure salaries to defend.

As quoted above, scientific debate involves lots of skepticism - the multitude of factors that are lumped together under the heading of "Climate Change" are just that, a multitude of factors. There's plenty of healthy disagreement on the fine points - what is not questioned at this point is that humans are having an effect on the environment due to carbon emissions, and that is happening at a speed never before seen

I read that article shortly after it was posted.

Let me explain as it doesn't seem to be seeking in. That website was set up by the people involved with this scandal. You don't have to take my word for it because you look through the leaked emails and determine that for yourself.

Let's say for minute this scandal involved Exxon, if I provided you a link to website to someone that worked for Exxon that was at the middle of this scandal and pointed to it as credible resource why should anyone take me or the resource seriously?

That's what you're doing...

As for the rest of you post BS.... these people have been caught red handed. " not on the same plane" ? Are you serious? They are nothing but a bunch of snake oil salesman.

As I said in another post, looks like the term "denier" has new life.
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Old 11-25-2009, 10:59 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,505 posts, read 51,262,946 times
Reputation: 24611
I am not about to buy any beach front or river bottom real estate. The globe is following a long term trend toward warmer temperatures. When the temperature becomes warm enough to dissolve the Greenland and Antarctic ice into the world ocean there will be a definite negative effect on the economy.

"Noah. Hey Noah, I want you to build a boat. A really big boat...."
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Old 11-25-2009, 12:52 PM
 
Location: Nort Seid
5,288 posts, read 7,591,029 times
Reputation: 2453
Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
I read that article shortly after it was posted.

Let me explain as it doesn't seem to be seeking in. That website was set up by the people involved with this scandal. You don't have to take my word for it because you look through the leaked emails and determine that for yourself.

Let's say for minute this scandal involved Exxon, if I provided you a link to website to someone that worked for Exxon that was at the middle of this scandal and pointed to it as credible resource why should anyone take me or the resource seriously?

That's what you're doing...

As for the rest of you post BS.... these people have been caught red handed. " not on the same plane" ? Are you serious? They are nothing but a bunch of snake oil salesman.

As I said in another post, looks like the term "denier" has new life.
ummm...no. you clearly did NOT read the article, nor have you tested your (alleged) knowledge of these things on their site. here, go nuts:

RealClimate: The CRU hack: Context

there's no "scandal," there's a bunch of scientists arguing, that's how the scientific process works. maybe try this article since you don't seem to grasp how modern science works:

http://www.csicop.org/specialarticle...ll_over_again/

but I note you are having some side-stepping issue with regard to the NASA discovery - are you seriously claiming NASA scientists are analogous to Exxon employees?

keep digging that hole...
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Old 11-25-2009, 01:01 PM
 
Location: Central Texas
20,391 posts, read 37,718,892 times
Reputation: 22529
I think what he's saying is that human beings are human beings, and human beings that have a vested interest in something in particular being believed are going to find it difficult if not impossible to be unbiased and are going to do their best to support and justify anything they do to support that interest. That without reading the article at all - it's simply the nature of the beast.

As for "peer review", it's all well and good and a fine thing, BUT there's a caveat. Having worked with people trying, with the best will in the world, to design unbiased studies that will later be reviewed by their peers, I've observed that (a) it's almost impossible to design an unbiased question, at least by a human being, it is, and (b) when it comes to peer review, chances are good that a substantial number of your peers are going to share your bias and thus have your same blind spot. Unless you're outside the box, and then you become designated as a "nutjob". So, peer review is good, but it's not infallible, nor is it the only tool you should be using to determine whether something's valid or not. Especially when the "peers" fall firmly on contradictory sides of an issue that has become politicized. The moment politics and emotion step in the door, science takes a walk out the other door.
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Old 11-25-2009, 01:26 PM
 
39,246 posts, read 40,617,533 times
Reputation: 16091
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chi-town Native View Post
ummm...no. you clearly did NOT read the article,
I read the article days ago when it was originally posted, I've also read most of the comments that follow so I could acquaint myself with what type of spin they were going to put on this.

Since your only criteria for credibility seems to be that it was printed on the Internet you may be surprised to learn the earth is flat:

The Flat Earth Society

Quote:
are you seriously claiming NASA scientists are analogous to Exxon employees?
Who you work and what your title is doesn't change human nature.

FYI NASA was named in lawsuit over FOI requests as direct result of the revelations of these emails:


Climategate: CEI to sue NASA Goddard for Climate Change fraud
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Old 11-25-2009, 01:47 PM
 
13,072 posts, read 11,406,352 times
Reputation: 2608
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chi-town Native View Post
ummm...no. you clearly did NOT read the article, nor have you tested your (alleged) knowledge of these things on their site. here, go nuts:

RealClimate: The CRU hack: Context

there's no "scandal," there's a bunch of scientists arguing, that's how the scientific process works. maybe try this article since you don't seem to grasp how modern science works:

http://www.csicop.org/specialarticle...ll_over_again/

but I note you are having some side-stepping issue with regard to the NASA discovery - are you seriously claiming NASA scientists are analogous to Exxon employees?

keep digging that hole...
That is spin. It is more than emails, it is the code, the very thing to which has been in contest from the begining and the reason a lot of those e-mails discuss the way they do. The context is correct.

Look at the code and argue back to me the "context".

Climategate: hide the decline – codified Watts Up With That?


Can you explain that? Can you explain how the code itself does exactly what you claim is being taken out of context in the emails? Can you?
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Old 11-25-2009, 01:51 PM
 
39,246 posts, read 40,617,533 times
Reputation: 16091
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW View Post
I am not about to buy any beach front or river bottom real estate.

This looks like good place?




Sea Levels Online - State Selection

There's some others that have gone down, if I remember correctly one from Northern Europe had a graph with significant loss. Most show an increase over many decades and where the records are available more than a century. One thing that is clear from any graph you will find thaere no matter what direction it is going in that it is steady.
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Old 11-25-2009, 01:57 PM
 
13,072 posts, read 11,406,352 times
Reputation: 2608
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW View Post
I am not about to buy any beach front or river bottom real estate. The globe is following a long term trend toward warmer temperatures. When the temperature becomes warm enough to dissolve the Greenland and Antarctic ice into the world ocean there will be a definite negative effect on the economy.

"Noah. Hey Noah, I want you to build a boat. A really big boat...."

I guess we will just have to take your word for it right? Oh thats right, you have "peerreviewedliterature" that claims so and has been reviewed by your close colleges who happen to agree with your point of view through a reputable journal to which also agrees with your point of view, yet unfortunately for reasons of national security you can not release the data to which you come to this conclusion and we are to take comfort in your expertise of the issue that this is all true.

So, who do I write the check to?
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Old 11-25-2009, 02:09 PM
 
Location: Vancouver, B.C., Canada
10,897 posts, read 23,128,061 times
Reputation: 5307
so what did they do with all the govronment research grants and donations
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Old 11-25-2009, 03:13 PM
 
238 posts, read 668,340 times
Reputation: 131
Obama will be attending the Copenhagen along with top world leaders. I'm having a little bit of a hard time with the idea that world leaders have not addressed this issue. Even if the veracity of the e-mails and documents was in question, they had more than enough time to prove that this is indeed real. Are the world leaders and media outlets trying to dismissed what has happened? I'll be really pissed off if they continue to push the carbon tax bill.
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