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Old 01-31-2010, 03:38 AM
 
Location: Between Heaven And Hell.
11,230 posts, read 7,489,713 times
Reputation: 14486

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean Trails View Post
Yes, unfortunately! They have one auto with the brand name of "Chery". Kinda sounds like something almost as good as baseball and apple pie???
I have just looked that one up, looks like I would need one for each foot!
What's this with the lead content then?
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Old 01-31-2010, 10:54 AM
 
Location: Way South of the Volvo Line
2,777 posts, read 7,118,706 times
Reputation: 2834
I have a real problem with all the people that think they are doing the environment a grand service by driving a Prius or other hybrid. How much petroleum was used and effluence vented to manufacture it ? How much is burned to provide it with recharging. Are you using solar or hydro to fuel that power plant that provides it's charge-up? I think a lot of so called environmentalists are simply idealistic rather than realistic.
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Old 01-31-2010, 11:03 AM
f_m
 
2,289 posts, read 7,520,632 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tcrackly View Post
I have a real problem with all the people that think they are doing the environment a grand service by driving a Prius or other hybrid. How much petroleum was used and effluence vented to manufacture it ? How much is burned to provide it with recharging. Are you using solar or hydro to fuel that power plant that provides it's charge-up? I think a lot of so called environmentalists are simply idealistic rather than realistic.
No one really knows all the details, except for people who are directly involved in the manufacture. Ultimately the current generations of product are "starters" to allow people to learn about the technology and how to make future improvements.

However, you keep talking about the "recharging" which seems to indicate you don't understand how the hybrids work. They recharge due to the engine and the braking mechanism of the car. While braking, energy is normally lost in heat, but in a hybrid, regenerative braking captures the energy and stores it in the battery. Also, the engine itself can charge the battery, similar to how current cars use an alternator to charge the battery.

What are some advantages, well hybrid buses are being tested using "hybrid" technology and ultracapacitors. This is a good idea for buses, because they are continuously starting and stopping at bus stops. So the energy recaptured when the bus stops to pick up passengers is then used to allow the bus to accelerate when it leaves the stop. Accelerating from a stop is a huge use of fuel in a normal bus. So the idea of future technology, when applied properly is very useful.

http://www.automotivedesignline.com/...leID=185301268

Last edited by f_m; 01-31-2010 at 11:35 AM.. Reason: added link
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Old 01-31-2010, 11:06 AM
f_m
 
2,289 posts, read 7,520,632 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BECLAZONE View Post
Is the new economical car, economical at the detriment of safety, and hence likely to need replacing again after even a small accident.
Actually, you may be more likely to be killed or injured in an older vehicle that does not meet current safety requirements. For safety purposes I would rather have a newer vehicle.
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Old 01-31-2010, 11:11 AM
f_m
 
2,289 posts, read 7,520,632 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BECLAZONE View Post
Still trying to find figures on that one, but I would assume it to be a lot more than speakers (speakers light, motor heavy). Also speakers tend to last longer.
My point is, you bring up things like neodymium, but don't really understand all the issues. I understand you use it as an example, but people tend to bring up these points without understanding them.

Neodymium speakers are smaller, but the market for speakers is much larger than for the cars. And of course cars also contain speakers too. Toyota has sold a little over 1 million Prius cars, but there are over 100 million iPod/iPhone devices that could be used with a new speaker system. Not to mention all the hundreds of millions of other computer speakers out there (a fair percent using neodymium), and the standard home/commercial speakers being sold.

In other word consumption of resources by hybrid vehicles is sometimes exaggerated by people who don't know about the issues. Same with nickel, etc... People complain about the nickel usage of hybrid batteries (although the next generation doesn't use nickel anyway), but nickel is most used in stainless steel (~1/3 of the consumption) and similar products.
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Old 01-31-2010, 01:02 PM
 
2,449 posts, read 4,805,867 times
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You'd be better off just using your car, whatever car that may be, less. Primarily, living close to work is the single best thing you can do. Or even living somewhere that you don't have to drive to work.
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Old 01-31-2010, 03:03 PM
 
Location: Maine
898 posts, read 1,225,327 times
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Why buy a new one?
Saturn SL
Honda Civic
Toyota Corolla
Pontiac Sunfire

Those are all cars that have been known to get over 40 miles per gallon (with a standard transmission). The real question is not what you drive, it's how you're driving it. Spending thousands of dollars is not feasible for most people, but most people don't realize how much gas they waste just in bad driving habits. Sure, your car can do 0-60 in 6 seconds, but does it need to? Gradual acceleration and breaking, driving the speed limit, stay off your breaks as much as you can, shift gears a little sooner, and of course, don't drive if you don't have to (a hybrid driven 500 miles a week uses more gas than an SUV driven 10 miles a week). Those are all ways you can save gas.

My 1996 Nissan Hardbody (4 cylinder, 5 speed standard, 107,000 miles) is rated at 15 city, 18 highway. In the coldest months, I get around 19 or 20, and in the warmer months, I get around 23 mpg, and have even seen it as high as 26. This truck has no modifications, other than the nut behind the wheel that was adjusted.
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Old 02-01-2010, 03:48 AM
 
Location: Between Heaven And Hell.
11,230 posts, read 7,489,713 times
Reputation: 14486
Quote:
Originally Posted by f_m View Post
My point is, you bring up things like neodymium, but don't really understand all the issues. I understand you use it as an example, but people tend to bring up these points without understanding them.

Neodymium speakers are smaller, but the market for speakers is much larger than for the cars. And of course cars also contain speakers too. Toyota has sold a little over 1 million Prius cars, but there are over 100 million iPod/iPhone devices that could be used with a new speaker system. Not to mention all the hundreds of millions of other computer speakers out there (a fair percent using neodymium), and the standard home/commercial speakers being sold.

In other word consumption of resources by hybrid vehicles is sometimes exaggerated by people who don't know about the issues. Same with nickel, etc... People complain about the nickel usage of hybrid batteries (although the next generation doesn't use nickel anyway), but nickel is most used in stainless steel (~1/3 of the consumption) and similar products.

Youíre right Neodymium was an example, but the term rare earth ore is self explanatory, these materials are finite, as I suppose is everything, but more so, and I was assuming it to be understood that itís not just the use of these materials that is the problem. If cars were manufactured as Henry Fordís factories manufactured, then it would maybe be ok, but these ores are transported all over the world during the refinement and manufacture process and hence the car has already caused loads of pollution even before itís used.

There is also a question hanging over the possible toxicity of Neodymium.

On the subject of all the other electronic equipment, I agree, they probably donít need rare earth ores to be used for their manufacture, plus I donít believe speakers need Neodymium anyway.
I wonít get onto the subject of iPods, antisocial little devices that they are.

On the subject of your previous post, that is, safety, there is much hype about supposed safety, but things such as crumple zones, are just I believe a sales ploy, some of the safest cars donít crumple, if it is crumpled it necessitates replacement and how do you control a car after the airbag has gone off in your face, it is assumed that any collision has caused you to come to a stop.
Of course a car will be economical if it is light, but that is why you need to sell the crumple zone to people.
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Old 02-01-2010, 04:15 AM
 
Location: Between Heaven And Hell.
11,230 posts, read 7,489,713 times
Reputation: 14486
Quote:
Originally Posted by melinuxfool View Post
Why buy a new one?
Saturn SL
Honda Civic
Toyota Corolla
Pontiac Sunfire

Those are all cars that have been known to get over 40 miles per gallon (with a standard transmission). The real question is not what you drive, it's how you're driving it. Spending thousands of dollars is not feasible for most people, but most people don't realize how much gas they waste just in bad driving habits. Sure, your car can do 0-60 in 6 seconds, but does it need to? Gradual acceleration and breaking, driving the speed limit, stay off your breaks as much as you can, shift gears a little sooner, and of course, don't drive if you don't have to (a hybrid driven 500 miles a week uses more gas than an SUV driven 10 miles a week). Those are all ways you can save gas.

My 1996 Nissan Hardbody (4 cylinder, 5 speed standard, 107,000 miles) is rated at 15 city, 18 highway. In the coldest months, I get around 19 or 20, and in the warmer months, I get around 23 mpg, and have even seen it as high as 26. This truck has no modifications, other than the nut behind the wheel that was adjusted.

There are many more that could be included in the list, for example if you were to include European cars, many would need including.

I have either had or driven many cars that could do more than 40 MPG, for example, I had a fiat 131 that did over 40 MPG as how fast or hard I drove it. I also had a Renault 11 that could do 49 MPG if driven carefully.

There is also the question of Catalytic Converters that cost the environment 10% more fuel, hence fewer MPGs, plus the Platinum in their construction.

I agree, it is more how you drive that matters, the car I have now will do about 20 MPG if pushed, but over 40 MPG if driven carefully.
Also sometimes bad fuel consumption can attributed to a faulty braking system. Binding brakes is terrible for economy.
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Old 02-01-2010, 07:28 AM
 
11,961 posts, read 12,822,632 times
Reputation: 2772
Solar powered cars are light years away just now.
Solar solution to pollution | Video | Reuters.com
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