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Old 09-07-2013, 01:45 PM
 
Location: Minnysoda
8,636 posts, read 8,532,839 times
Reputation: 5180

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Quote:
Originally Posted by joe moving View Post
Here in NJ and NY also, possibly many other states, we can opt to pay more for Wind, hydro and solar power. Here is a quote :

$14 more per 700 KW/h per month from one company, or $0.02 more per KW/H from another company.

I am sure that the merits of this are debatable, but it seems like a good effort. It is probably NOT worse than coal powered electricity.

Thoughts?
My thoughts??? Maybe we should learn something for the Aussies...
http://www.instituteforenergyresearch.org/australias-carbon-tax/
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Old 09-08-2013, 11:44 AM
 
Location: Minnesota
5,147 posts, read 6,340,532 times
Reputation: 1561
Americans? Learn from the rest of the world? What revolution are you trying to start?
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Old 09-08-2013, 04:08 PM
 
Location: DC
6,526 posts, read 6,461,516 times
Reputation: 3137
Quote:
Originally Posted by my54ford View Post
My thoughts??? Maybe we should learn something for the Aussies...
http://www.instituteforenergyresearch.org/australias-carbon-tax/
[yawn] Maybe not. [/yawn]
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Old 09-08-2013, 05:22 PM
 
222 posts, read 397,921 times
Reputation: 147
I work as an electrical engineer at a hydro power plant. I remember someone once asking me how the power company gives them wind power only.

Long term versus short term worries me. The NIMBY effect is driving wind power development offshore. What will happen to onshore wind farms? Ever see abandoned wind farms? Hawaii?

Solar is projected to see the most growth in the next ten years. The head of NERC says all the other sources will merely supplement solar.

What happens when supply outpaces demand? I can tell you it isn't pretty. Fish die. Trying to fit surplus into the power grid is not easy. You can't have a blue light special. Privately owned power suppliers don't want to cut production because the more green power they make the more greenbacks they make. Publicly owned power suppliers don't want to take it in the shorts either.

Would I personally pay more for green energy? No way. I don't mind taking their money, but I'm sure not going to willingly give it back to them.
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Old 09-09-2013, 12:21 AM
 
Location: Volcano
12,971 posts, read 23,624,347 times
Reputation: 10580
Quote:
Originally Posted by gonpostal View Post
Long term versus short term worries me. The NIMBY effect is driving wind power development offshore. What will happen to onshore wind farms? Ever see abandoned wind farms? Hawaii?
Credible estimates of inactive wind farms is between 1 and 2% of the US total, and most of those date back to the 70s, with greatly outdated technology. The deactivated windfarm at Southpoint, on the Big Island, has now been replaced by much larger and more efficient turbines. And the large windfarm on the island of Lahaina is being doubled in size.

There are always bumps in the road with new technologies. That doesn't make them less valid.
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Old 09-09-2013, 03:08 AM
 
39,480 posts, read 40,796,345 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beenhere4ever View Post
Americans? Learn from the rest of the world? What revolution are you trying to start?
You didn't read the article did you. LOL
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Old 09-09-2013, 07:04 AM
 
Location: DC
6,526 posts, read 6,461,516 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OpenD View Post
Credible estimates of inactive wind farms is between 1 and 2% of the US total, and most of those date back to the 70s, with greatly outdated technology. The deactivated windfarm at Southpoint, on the Big Island, has now been replaced by much larger and more efficient turbines. And the large windfarm on the island of Lahaina is being doubled in size.

There are always bumps in the road with new technologies. That doesn't make them less valid.
Ever see deactivated nuclear and coal fired plants. They aren't pretty. Any "old" wind site is going to be redeveloped quickly because it's a good resource.
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Old 09-09-2013, 07:39 AM
 
Location: Minnysoda
8,636 posts, read 8,532,839 times
Reputation: 5180
Quote:
Originally Posted by gonpostal View Post
I work as an electrical engineer at a hydro power plant. I remember someone once asking me how the power company gives them wind power only.

Long term versus short term worries me. The NIMBY effect is driving wind power development offshore. What will happen to onshore wind farms? Ever see abandoned wind farms? Hawaii?

Solar is projected to see the most growth in the next ten years. The head of NERC says all the other sources will merely supplement solar.

What happens when supply outpaces demand? I can tell you it isn't pretty. Fish die. Trying to fit surplus into the power grid is not easy. You can't have a blue light special. Privately owned power suppliers don't want to cut production because the more green power they make the more greenbacks they make. Publicly owned power suppliers don't want to take it in the shorts either.

Would I personally pay more for green energy? No way. I don't mind taking their money, but I'm sure not going to willingly give it back to them.
How do you like swinging that Hydro unit? I was speaking at an EPRI conferance a few years back and some BPA guys said they were hateing it!!!
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Old 09-09-2013, 08:20 AM
 
Location: DC
6,526 posts, read 6,461,516 times
Reputation: 3137
Quote:
Originally Posted by gonpostal View Post
I work as an electrical engineer at a hydro power plant. I remember someone once asking me how the power company gives them wind power only.

Long term versus short term worries me. The NIMBY effect is driving wind power development offshore. What will happen to onshore wind farms? Ever see abandoned wind farms? Hawaii?

Solar is projected to see the most growth in the next ten years. The head of NERC says all the other sources will merely supplement solar.

What happens when supply outpaces demand? I can tell you it isn't pretty. Fish die. Trying to fit surplus into the power grid is not easy. You can't have a blue light special. Privately owned power suppliers don't want to cut production because the more green power they make the more greenbacks they make. Publicly owned power suppliers don't want to take it in the shorts either.

Would I personally pay more for green energy? No way. I don't mind taking their money, but I'm sure not going to willingly give it back to them.
That's pretty funny. There's surplus generation around all the time. Always has been. It's the nature of the industry. I remember some systems having 40% excess capacity in the 80s.

How can supply exceed demand on an electrical grid? You certainly have never seen it happen. Not pretty? Doesn't happen.

Solar will be a big winner in the electric utility industry -- rooftop requires no additional transmission, it relieves existing congestion, the price is dropping like crazy, and it's coincident with the annual system peak for most systems. It's a total winner. Wind will fill in the night time valleys. Other renewables and natural gas will provide reserves and standby power.
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Old 09-09-2013, 08:21 AM
 
Location: Minnesota
5,147 posts, read 6,340,532 times
Reputation: 1561
Hydro power isn't totally free of adverse environmental effects. In some places it has brought fish species near extinction. In China, it wiped out many many towns and farms. I guess every method will involve cost-benefit. I'm not sure what the negative part of the ledger is for solar. But I do know it is inherent in every other form of energy. A watt of solar eliminates a lot of middlemen and saves centuries of conversion of sun energy to something else like coal or oil. The sun is the ultimate source of civilization. Maybe that's somehow why it was worshipped long ago.
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