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Old 05-04-2010, 05:30 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chi-town Native View Post
But ironically, the meat most of us eat is chock full of synthetic nutrients at root. How can we survive healthily if the animals we eat are not healthy?
That is not true at all. Where do you read or hear this kind of stuff? Please, I really want to know.

Thanks Chi.
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Old 05-04-2010, 09:54 AM
 
Location: Nort Seid
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt. Cave Man View Post
That is not true at all. Where do you read or hear this kind of stuff? Please, I really want to know.

Thanks Chi.
Cattle eating corn feed (ie, not grazing on grass) are eating remnants of all of the pesticides and fertilizers used to grow the corn.

As mentioned above, same thing goes for eating most fruits and vegetables.

I know there are some folks here who actually graze cattle the old-fashioned way, but that seems to be the exception to the rule.
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Old 05-04-2010, 12:15 PM
 
Location: Interior AK
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Part of the problem is feeding cows corn in the first place. Corn is not species appropriate for cows, it makes them sick if they're fed it long-term, which is mostly the reason why all the antibiotics are necessary. Cows are designed to eat grass, crappy scrub grass at that, with an occassional bit of grain (no more than they'd come across grazing wild).

Corn has a really high allergen rating for most animals, and it's fairly hard to digest, so it's best consumed in moderation just like everything else... human, cow, pig or chicken doesn't matter
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Old 05-04-2010, 12:34 PM
 
Location: Nort Seid
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MissingAll4Seasons View Post
Part of the problem is feeding cows corn in the first place. Corn is not species appropriate for cows, it makes them sick if they're fed it long-term, which is mostly the reason why all the antibiotics are necessary. Cows are designed to eat grass, crappy scrub grass at that, with an occassional bit of grain (no more than they'd come across grazing wild).

Corn has a really high allergen rating for most animals, and it's fairly hard to digest, so it's best consumed in moderation just like everything else... human, cow, pig or chicken doesn't matter
Very true on the corn-digestion issue. I believe you also need crazy amounts of antibiotics when cattle (or chickens, whatever) are kept in tight quarters.

Jared Diamond's Guns, Germs and Steel is a good overall-context book in that regard.
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Old 05-04-2010, 01:04 PM
 
Location: Interior AK
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Another good book on the topic is George Pyle's Raising Less Corn, More Hell . Even if you're not biased toward independent/organic farming, there's a lot of good biological and economic info about the "unnatural-ness" of our corn-based system.
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Old 05-04-2010, 02:16 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chi-town Native View Post
Cattle eating corn feed (ie, not grazing on grass) are eating remnants of all of the pesticides and fertilizers used to grow the corn.

As mentioned above, same thing goes for eating most fruits and vegetables.

I know there are some folks here who actually graze cattle the old-fashioned way, but that seems to be the exception to the rule.
Chi, I raise cattle and grow corn. I'm sorry but your getting too radical on the cattle and corn. Relax and hear me out. Cattle spend most of thier lives on grass, when they are "finished" they are fed some corn, but mostly grass/silage/hay. The corn raised for cattle has to have some fertilizer, same w/any other veg, including organic. The pesticides used are so limited and there are withdraws that it won't have any effect/affect on the end product/land.

You want to go old fashioned, grab a rock. I'm sorry, but we must move on.

With all due respect, Chi
Capt.
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Old 05-04-2010, 02:20 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MissingAll4Seasons View Post
Part of the problem is feeding cows corn in the first place. Corn is not species appropriate for cows, it makes them sick if they're fed it long-term, which is mostly the reason why all the antibiotics are necessary. Cows are designed to eat grass, crappy scrub grass at that, with an occassional bit of grain (no more than they'd come across grazing wild).

Corn has a really high allergen rating for most animals, and it's fairly hard to digest, so it's best consumed in moderation just like everything else... human, cow, pig or chicken doesn't matter
Where do you get your info? Seriously, where?
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Old 05-05-2010, 08:32 AM
 
Location: Nort Seid
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt. Cave Man View Post
Cattle spend most of thier lives on grass, when they are "finished" they are fed some corn
"Cattle spend most of their lives on grass"

Do you have any backup for this, as far as the larger industry is concerned?

I think you are falling into the trap so many do here, which is if you personally are doing it one way, that must be the industry standard. But Mad Cow disease didn't come about due to cattle grazing happily in a meadow.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt. Cave Man View Post
The corn raised for cattle has to have some fertilizer
Organic farming does not use synthetic fertilizers, that's what I was referring to, and don't forget the pesticides and antibiotics.
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Old 05-05-2010, 10:06 AM
 
1,882 posts, read 4,117,876 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chi-town Native View Post
"Cattle spend most of their lives on grass"

Do you have any backup for this, as far as the larger industry is concerned? I'll see if I can get the % and/or days. I'm sorry to say, but I am part of the "larger industry". Proud yet sometimes embarrassed by what a few others do. It's a few that can cause a bad image, imho.

I think you are falling into the trap so many do here, which is if you personally are doing it one way, that must be the industry standard. But Mad Cow disease didn't come about due to cattle grazing happily in a meadow.

Very good point. I like to think everyone does, but I can't honestly say that they do. But I do like to stick up for them.



Organic farming does not use synthetic fertilizers, that's what I was referring to, and don't forget the pesticides and antibiotics.
Many of us also use natural fertilizers. In our area, I don't know of anyone use'n "sythetics". I use far less pesticides and herbicides than I used to 10yrs ago, to raise crops. More technology and better traits have helped this.

I'll see if I can find this article/research that might be interesting. I'll also check on cattle days/on grass vs feed lot.

Later Chi.
capt.
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Old 05-06-2010, 11:24 AM
 
1,882 posts, read 4,117,876 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chi-town Native View Post
"Cattle spend most of their lives on grass"

Do you have any backup for this, as far as the larger industry is concerned?
You can figure 20% of their lives will be in a feed lot. Can range 15-25. Kinda wide range, but there are many factors. ie breed, mother nature, etc.
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