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Old 05-18-2010, 12:31 PM
 
39,193 posts, read 40,579,931 times
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yet, here you are once again trumping coal in a thread that had absolutely nothing to do with it
Wasn't me that brought it up...

Quote:
Originally Posted by harborlady View Post
Coal isn't cheap either if you do the math honestly. How much subsidy has been given to date? How much does it cost to get it out of the ground? How much to transport? How much money have we spent on railroad systems to get it around? Tell the whole truth, not just what you prefer to believe.
As far as my personal interests in coal my Great Grandfther started delivering with a horse and wagon in the 20's. I was the last person to run that business, small but profitable. In 2006 I "retired" to the easy life. My only current financial interest in coal is my website where consumers can find information on using coal in a residential setting. If anything cap and trade and the increase in the cost of energy would actually be beneficial to myself as people would be seeking alternatives.
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Old 05-18-2010, 12:47 PM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,505 posts, read 51,230,061 times
Reputation: 24606
A the coal man is using local anthracite coal to fuel his local house he does have a very low carbon footprint. If he wanted he could rig up a 10hp boiler and make his own electricity but that becomes a bit labor intensive.

I do agree with the idea of local ownership of distributed power resources. Perhaps the development of small (20 to 50 Mw) sealed nuclear power plants might make this possible. A town could raise the money to buy or lease one of these things and become independent of the big utility while increasing the reliability of their power supply.
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Old 05-18-2010, 01:03 PM
 
Location: Nort Seid
5,288 posts, read 7,587,419 times
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Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
Wasn't me that brought it up...
No, but you did show up in the forum specifically to bash a renewable energy - the title of the thread doesn't say "windfarms more successful than coal" or anything like that.

and harborlady is right - coal is cheap to mine and consume, but there are a lot of externalities; ie, costs society pays for indirectly.

it's still likely cheaper than renewables, for now - but whether we're talking 50 or 150 years, it's going to be gone one day, and that day is not too far off - the USA isn't even 300 years old. Do you really think we will go down in history as one of the greatest societies in earth's history if we economically implode before we're 400?
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Old 05-18-2010, 01:36 PM
 
39,193 posts, read 40,579,931 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chi-town Native View Post
No, but you did show up in the forum specifically to bash a renewable energy - the title of the thread doesn't say "windfarms more successful than coal" or anything like that.
This is a discussion forum, you bring a topic up and discuss it. Just because you don't like one aspect of a topic doesn't mean it shouldn't be discussed. Certainly when you are discussing wind farms the cost can and should be part of the discussion.

Quote:
but whether we're talking 50 or 150 years, it's going to be gone one day,
It will never be gone, I can guarantee a viable and economical alternative will be in use long before the coal supply runs out. That's inevitable.
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Old 05-18-2010, 03:08 PM
 
Location: Nort Seid
5,288 posts, read 7,587,419 times
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Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
This is a discussion forum, you bring a topic up and discuss it. Just because you don't like one aspect of a topic doesn't mean it shouldn't be discussed. Certainly when you are discussing wind farms the cost can and should be part of the discussion.
It's a discussion forum on GREEN LIVING. Coal, by definition, is not green living. I am not a fan of topic copping, but you pretty much try to change the subject in every thread I see you in - we call that sidestepping.


Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post

It will never be gone, I can guarantee a viable and economical alternative will be in use long before the coal supply runs out. That's inevitable.
Do you understand what fossil fuels are? As in, made of once-living things that died and fossilized over millions upon millions of years? They are a finite source of energy, period.

As for the "viable and economic alternative," well my friend, that's exactly what renewable energy advocates are working to create - you seem to be working to stop these alternatives.

Factor in the costs associated with climate change, including the acidification of the oceans and dirty air/health problems and rising sea levels and coal doesn't look quite so cheap.

Really, the problem here is you have a Wall St "quarterly" mentality, when the problem we're confronted with is one that is 7+ generations deep in its implications and consequences.
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Old 05-18-2010, 04:02 PM
 
Location: NE Florida
9,362 posts, read 22,760,092 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harborlady View Post
Although this piece is editorial, I think it states a strong case for the approach of renewables in the states.

Windfarms are stricken by the British refusal to share | George Monbiot | Environment | guardian.co.uk
After watching hours of hearings on the recent oil spill and reading the dirty secrets of the coal industry, it is clear to me that lay people would have a tough time cutting through the BS to get to the real dollars and sense of continuing to rely so heavily on oil and coal.

What is clear is that a great deal of money must be spent to make these two options safer and to properly monitor them to ensure that management is not ignoring safety standards for the sake of higher net profit. This money could be better spent on R & D for renewal energy options. To continue to look toward coal and oil is to look back. There are myriad other ways to generate power that are cleaner, safer and renewable, some, I am sure, that have not even yet been considered.
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Old 05-18-2010, 06:18 PM
 
39,193 posts, read 40,579,931 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chi-town Native View Post
It's a discussion forum on GREEN LIVING. Coal, by definition, is not green living. I am not a fan of topic copping, but you pretty much try to change the subject in every thread I see you in - we call that sidestepping.
You would call that threadjacking but the topic wasn't derailed by me. I simply pointed out the high cost of electric in Denmark which produces a very large amount of electricity with wind...

Quote:
Do you understand what fossil fuels are? As in, made of once-living things that died and fossilized over millions upon millions of years? They are a finite source of energy, period.
Yes, I'm quite aware of that but you need to read and comprehend the entire sentence. We'll never run out of coal because we'll never burn it all.

Last edited by thecoalman; 05-18-2010 at 06:28 PM..
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Old 05-18-2010, 06:37 PM
 
Location: Minnysoda
8,576 posts, read 8,496,125 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW View Post
A the coal man is using local anthracite coal to fuel his local house he does have a very low carbon footprint. If he wanted he could rig up a 10hp boiler and make his own electricity but that becomes a bit labor intensive.

I do agree with the idea of local ownership of distributed power resources. Perhaps the development of small (20 to 50 Mw) sealed nuclear power plants might make this possible. A town could raise the money to buy or lease one of these things and become independent of the big utility while increasing the reliability of their power supply.
Once again here is some info that may interest folks.
While we may not generate as much as the big investor owned utilities there are more public and goverment owned utilities out there.....
P.S. Public owned distributed is an old story in the midwest.

Electric Power Industry--Composition of Electric Entities in the United States

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Old 05-18-2010, 09:33 PM
 
Location: Denver
1,082 posts, read 4,291,979 times
Reputation: 544
I live in Colorado and was looking at the scarce population of a majority of the counties in that state. The most people live along the front range, but when industries come into Colorado they treat us like a colony, without fail. They'll put in a plant or business, drive out smaller ones, then leave when the economy goes down, taking the corporate headquarters back to Chicago, SF, LA, or east.

I call it the carpet baggers state. Nobody wants to have their land, view and towns trashed for what? So the company can hire and pay outsiders to deal with for 5-10 years and then go. That's what's wrong with the "world economy"-the benefits always go somewhere else. I agree with you.
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Old 05-18-2010, 09:35 PM
 
Location: Denver
1,082 posts, read 4,291,979 times
Reputation: 544
Harbor lady, why is cheaper better? The cost of energy might be low but we pay for it in many other ways, the costs are just transferred elsewhere: expensive food, expensive wages, expensive cost of recycling, cleanup, or health hazards.
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