U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > North Carolina > Greensboro, Winston-Salem, High Point
 [Register]
Greensboro, Winston-Salem, High Point The Triad Area
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 09-22-2013, 01:26 PM
 
5,048 posts, read 6,965,556 times
Reputation: 4146

Advertisements

How did your community get to be a HOA for just a little grass mowing? If it's for proper upkeep of homes, then, will that continue to the satisfaction of the homeowners?

How about the current mortgages. Lenders like the idea of nicely regulated hoa's. In your case there will apparently not be any real depletion of amenities such as tennis court or pool. However, the structure does change on paper. What will the lenders think about that?

Why have people been buying in your community? Will that continue in a satisfactory manner for you?

There is no joint water/sewer bill? Are all homes single family? How about joint insurance?

What does the board/mgr/whoever do? Can you all do that?

What is jointly done. Sometimes more than one would think. How is that commonly owned grass cared for? And fertilizing? And buy spraying?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 09-23-2013, 07:46 AM
 
Location: High Point, NC
97 posts, read 254,375 times
Reputation: 90
If you dissolve the HOA, the common area doesn't revert to the local city or county government. You'd still have to form an association (by calling a meeting and replacing board members one by one according to your bylaws, I would think) and be responsible for maintaining those areas. Who of you or your neighbors would then be responsible for leading the new association, maintaining records, writing new bylaws, filing necessary documents and managing funds to maintain the common area? If it were me, I'd certainly have an attorney guiding me and I would use HOA funds to pay the fee for him to draw up the papers and file them. I'd also be questioning whether I'd want to be responsible for calling board meetings, keeping minutes, handling complaints from residents against others, enforcing payment of HOA dues or whether I'd just rather pay the $18 every month. Unless your HOA is imposing regulations that violate state or federal law, I don't think there's any legal recourse you have. If the board is corrupt and abusing power by misusing funds, not keeping proper records, etc. you may have some recourse. The board is required to keep financial records to show they're used for the purposes stated. You can request a copy to review the records and check for any discrepancies but they're allowed to use funds for reasonable operating costs and to pay for the maintenance of common areas. If you bring legal action and the board prevails, a judge can then order the homeowners to pay legal fees they incur. I would read my CC&R and bylaws carefully to see if it provides for you to call a meeting and if so, how, what the bylaws allow the board to do with funds collected, I would review their budget statements and if they have not violated the bylaws and the bylaws are not contrary to state or federal law, I would be very reluctant to bring any action against the board. I am not an attorney, if I'm wrong I hope someone posts and corrects me so you'll accurate information, but I have read the NC statutes re: HOAs many times because I know lots of people who have issues with theirs. There have been posts similar to yours in this forum that I read NC statutes before replying to see if the OP's grievance, however legitimate or understandable, might be one upon which they could remove board members (notwithstanding HOA bylaws) or bring legal action. I've never known of anyone who was successful. And I understand your frustration re: the amount of money going to the management company but if it's provided for, then it is what it is. However the bylaws provide for homeowners to call an open meeting is how you have to do it. However the bylaws provide for you to remove board members and replace them is how you must go about it. Nobody here can really answer your question without being able to read your bylaws but I have a feeling it's probably going to be cheaper and much less of a hassle to pay the $18. Good luck and I hope things work out in everyone's best interest.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-23-2013, 08:19 AM
 
5,048 posts, read 6,965,556 times
Reputation: 4146
Quote:
Originally Posted by cully View Post
How did your community get to be a HOA for just a little grass mowing? If it's for proper upkeep of homes, then, will that continue to the satisfaction of the homeowners?

How about the current mortgages. Lenders like the idea of nicely regulated hoa's. In your case there will apparently not be any real depletion of amenities such as tennis court or pool. However, the structure does change on paper. What will the lenders think about that?

Why have people been buying in your community? Will that continue in a satisfactory manner for you?

There is no joint water/sewer bill? Are all homes single family? How about joint insurance?

What does the board/mgr/whoever do? Can you all do that?

What is jointly done. Sometimes more than one would think. How is that commonly owned grass cared for? And fertilizing? And buy spraying?
PS By lenders, I mean what will current lenders think, what will happen to current ownders who already have mortgages in your community? I know some mortgage brokers who say if there is any loss to the package the lender should be notified because the loan was made on that package. I wonder if this would be considered a loss?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-23-2013, 09:08 AM
 
2,825 posts, read 3,353,316 times
Reputation: 3030
Quote:
Originally Posted by cully View Post
PS By lenders, I mean what will current lenders think, what will happen to current ownders who already have mortgages in your community? I know some mortgage brokers who say if there is any loss to the package the lender should be notified because the loan was made on that package. I wonder if this would be considered a loss?

It would be a gain. The existence of the HOA corporation was accompanied by a perpetual lien that can never be paid off. Without the HOA the property is inherently more valuable. If you examine a typical security instrument - it only obligates the obligor to pay HOA assessments if they exist - it does not prevent the homeowner from voting to get rid of the HOA.

In addition neither the lender nor the homeowner have any assurances or guarantees regarding the existence of restrictive covenants. There is generally no obligation to inform a "lender" about termination of the HOA corporation or an amendment to eliminate a restriction that would require involuntary membership in one.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-23-2013, 09:29 AM
 
2,825 posts, read 3,353,316 times
Reputation: 3030
Quote:
Originally Posted by laneynewport View Post
If you dissolve the HOA, the common area doesn't revert to the local city or county government.
It can be abandoned, sold, transferred to local government with its permission, or owned as tenants-in-common. Although stated somewhat ambiguously, it sounds like the HOA that the more recent poster is dealing with does not own any property.

Quote:
You'd still have to form an association (by calling a meeting and replacing board members one by one according to your bylaws, I would think) and be responsible for maintaining those areas.
Says who? Again - no such property owned by the HOA corp.

Quote:
Who of you or your neighbors would then be responsible for leading the new association, maintaining records, writing new bylaws, filing necessary documents and managing funds to maintain the common area?
Why continue a liability? None i needed.

Quote:
If it were me, I'd certainly have an attorney guiding me and I would use HOA funds to pay the fee for him to draw up the papers and file them. I'd also be questioning whether I'd want to be responsible for calling board meetings, keeping minutes, handling complaints from residents against others, enforcing payment of HOA dues or whether I'd just rather pay the $18 every month.
That $18 comes with a perpetual lien that can never be paid off along with threats of litigation and a host of other unpleasantness. Those "HOA funds" vaporized with the HOA corporation and any excess is not available for the few to use to re-institute a new regime.

Quote:
Unless your HOA is imposing regulations that violate state or federal law, I don't think there's any legal recourse you have. If the board is corrupt and abusing power by misusing funds, not keeping proper records, etc. you may have some recourse. The board is required to keep financial records to show they're used for the purposes stated.
Dissolve the HOA corporation or eliminate the involuntary membership requirement and you no longer have to worry about HOA boards exceeding their authority, embezzlement, unscrupulous HOA property managers, etc.

Quote:
You can request a copy to review the records and check for any discrepancies but they're allowed to use funds for reasonable operating costs and to pay for the maintenance of common areas.
Good luck getting the records. Record obfuscation by the board and HOA vendors is quite common and there is ample litigation over access to records. You won't need records or litigation to gain access to them when there isn't an HOA corp.

Quote:
If you bring legal action and the board prevails, a judge can then order the homeowners to pay legal fees they incur.
Perhaps.

Quote:
I would read my CC&R and bylaws carefully to see if it provides for you to call a meeting and if so, how, what the bylaws allow the board to do with funds collected, I would review their budget statements and if they have not violated the bylaws and the bylaws are not contrary to state or federal law, I would be very reluctant to bring any action against the board. I am not an attorney, if I'm wrong I hope someone posts and corrects me so you'll accurate information, but I have read the NC statutes re: HOAs many times because I know lots of people who have issues with theirs.
The NC statutes were written by attorneys that specialize in representing HOA corporations against homeowners. Acknowledgment that you "know lots of people who have issues with theirs [HOAs]" should serve as sufficient basis to support eliminating involuntary membership in them.


Quote:
There have been posts similar to yours in this forum that I read NC statutes before replying to see if the OP's grievance, however legitimate or understandable, might be one upon which they could remove board members (notwithstanding HOA bylaws) or bring legal action. I've never known of anyone who was successful. And I understand your frustration re: the amount of money going to the management company but if it's provided for, then it is what it is. However the bylaws provide for homeowners to call an open meeting is how you have to do it. However the bylaws provide for you to remove board members and replace them is how you must go about it. Nobody here can really answer your question without being able to read your bylaws but I have a feeling it's probably going to be cheaper and much less of a hassle to pay the $18. Good luck and I hope things work out in everyone's best interest.
Anything under the control of the board and its vendors is going to be designed to preserve the authority and ego for the board and $$$ for the management company. You can lead proposing an amendment to eliminate involuntary membership in the HOA corporation by amending the provision that imposes such a requirement. Sounds like you already have the 67% you need to amend the restrictive covenants. Target the one that imposes involuntary membership and eliminate it. That will not inherently eliminate the HOA corp - it will eliminate involuntary membership.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-23-2013, 10:47 AM
 
Location: High Point, NC
97 posts, read 254,375 times
Reputation: 90
Well, valid points. Who would own the land, according to the statute, it would be held in trust, all creditors paid, then it could go one of several different ways. And you're right, they wouldn't have to form another association, I was looking up how they would go about calling a meeting because the only way I could think of to dissolve the HOA would be to replace board members with people who were like-minded and would draw up new bylaws according to what the residents wanted. As far as the law regarding perpetuity, I know that the statute states the rules of perpetuity cannot be used to disregard the bylaws of the HOA. I would assume the HOA agreement would be required buy any future homeowners? I'm not sure. Okay, I get it. You're against HOAs. I think they're something along the lines of what some satan spawn would come up with. I "kinda" own my property? This is my sanctuary, my domain but you get to tell me what color my shutters can be? No! I do understand where you're coming from. And I didn't offer the few people know who've run into this as proof of some sort of authority on the subject. I'm just saying I've watched a couple of families who've gone through this and I've never known anyone who prevailed or ended up happy with the outcome. I've looked it up before but as of whenever that was, I never came across any of these situations where the homeowners came out on top once they'd closed on the property. The only argument I would reply with is your own case, that the bylaws are intentionally designed to preserve the authority of the board for exactly the reasons you stated, yet none of them are a valid claim in court to defeat the HOA contract. It has to be unlawful, it has to be found to be unlawful in court and courts tend to favor well-written contracts, which most HOA contracts are. It's pretty simple to draw up a legal contract that is morally wrong but can stand legally.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-23-2013, 05:19 PM
 
5,048 posts, read 6,965,556 times
Reputation: 4146
Do you want new bylaws and new board members....if only to tide you over? Or do you want to be just regular non-hoa, non-poa homes?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-05-2018, 11:58 AM
 
6 posts, read 3,866 times
Reputation: 11
Any word on whether to modification from involuntary to voluntary was successful in being able to rid oneself of an onerous HOA. Other than the common area entrances, we have zero amenities and a heavy handed HOA.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-05-2018, 03:53 PM
 
Location: The Emerald City
1,486 posts, read 1,698,756 times
Reputation: 2109
Where do you live?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-20-2018, 11:33 AM
 
6 posts, read 3,866 times
Reputation: 11
Default Johnston County NC

In unincorporated area of the county, between Garner and Clayton. No city or municipality to worry about, just the HOA that provides for 3 area entrances and the minimal landscaping that involves. No other amenities.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:




Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > North Carolina > Greensboro, Winston-Salem, High Point
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top