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Old 02-19-2013, 09:44 PM
 
Location: Greensboro, NC USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WFW&P View Post
An IKEA in High Point would fit the demographic in the area better than Furnitureland South would.
excellent point. I personally believe the Triad could support an IKEA because the region's demographics can support a store based on the product prices. Honestly I can purchase the same kind of home decor items from Target. IKEA is like Target home decor meets Home Depot. But because of their strict ridiculous guidelines in which areas get a store, it will be a very long time before the Triad is even considered for a store. Because of the proximity to Charlotte, the Triad may have to get to 3 million people to qualify for a store. I could understand the Triad not getting one of IKEA's American competitors, which are much pricier stores. A typical designer lamp in those stores can easily exceed $300. Heck Pier 1 in Greensboro is pricier than IKEA. Maybe High Point could consider a 300,000 to 500,000 square foot Piedmont regional outdoor "lifestyle village mall" centered around home furnishings, furniture and home improvement with a cluster of stores. The lifestyle village could include restaurants, condos and apartments. Residents wouldn't have to look far to buy furniture and home furnishings. A local based regional home furnishings retail complex would be stiff competition for IKEA. I would build it near the I-85/I-74 interchange. Imagine a Shops at Friendly Center type complex with nothing but furniture, home improvement and home furnishing stores. I could see totally unique brand stores along with national brand stores like Williams Sonoma, Pier 1, Kirkland's, Sur La Table, Hobby Lobby, Michaels, Pottery Barn, Yankee Candle, Badcock Furniture, Ashleys Furniture, Rooms to Go, Garden Ridge, Home Place, Tuesday Morning, The Home Depot, World Market and Bed Bath and Beyond located in the lifestyle village. I think High Point needs to do more than attract people twice a year to the Home Furnishings Market, which btw isn't open to the public. There is the potential to make High Point a bigger home furnishings retail center.

Last edited by gsoboi78; 02-19-2013 at 10:54 PM..
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Old 02-20-2013, 03:43 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsoboi78 View Post
excellent point. I personally believe the Triad could support an IKEA because the region's demographics can support a store based on the product prices. Honestly I can purchase the same kind of home decor items from Target. IKEA is like Target home decor meets Home Depot. But because of their strict ridiculous guidelines in which areas get a store, it will be a very long time before the Triad is even considered for a store. Because of the proximity to Charlotte, the Triad may have to get to 3 million people to qualify for a store. I could understand the Triad not getting one of IKEA's American competitors, which are much pricier stores. A typical designer lamp in those stores can easily exceed $300. Heck Pier 1 in Greensboro is pricier than IKEA. Maybe High Point could consider a 300,000 to 500,000 square foot Piedmont regional outdoor "lifestyle village mall" centered around home furnishings, furniture and home improvement with a cluster of stores. The lifestyle village could include restaurants, condos and apartments. Residents wouldn't have to look far to buy furniture and home furnishings. A local based regional home furnishings retail complex would be stiff competition for IKEA. I would build it near the I-85/I-74 interchange. Imagine a Shops at Friendly Center type complex with nothing but furniture, home improvement and home furnishing stores. I could see totally unique brand stores along with national brand stores like Williams Sonoma, Pier 1, Kirkland's, Sur La Table, Hobby Lobby, Michaels, Pottery Barn, Yankee Candle, Badcock Furniture, Ashleys Furniture, Rooms to Go, Garden Ridge, Home Place, Tuesday Morning, The Home Depot, World Market and Bed Bath and Beyond located in the lifestyle village. I think High Point needs to do more than attract people twice a year to the Home Furnishings Market, which btw isn't open to the public. There is the potential to make High Point a bigger home furnishings retail center.
When High Point lost Oak Hollow mall I lost faith in the city ever being anything more than a slightly more modern version of Reidsville. Sadly, the only thing really growing there is HPU but everything else they get is table scraps from Winston & Greensboro.
Your idea sounds like a good one, but I don't see it happening in High Point.
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Old 02-21-2013, 06:52 AM
 
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gsoboi, your "lifestyle village" is interesting in concept, but I don't think it would make sense to the marketing folks of the companies you mention. Why would a Kirkland's want to be in the same complex with Pottery Barn, World Market, etc., who are direct competitors? Same with Badcock, Ashley, Rooms to Go...you don't want your customers to be able to simply walk next door to compare the other guy's offerings. That would be very risky unless you have a virtually unlimited supply of customers to support having that many choices in one place.
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Old 02-21-2013, 07:19 AM
 
Location: South Beach and DT Raleigh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsoboi78 View Post
If they had put IKEA in Greensboro to begin with, they would just need one store to serve Greensboro, Winston-Salem, Charlotte, Durham, Raleigh, Fayetteville and southern Virginia. It would have saved in operational costs. There would be no need to have one in Charlotte and then a second one in Raleigh. Charlotte and Raleigh are within 100 miles of Greensboro. It would have been smart to put it in the center of half the state's population where the state's most important Interstates, I-85, I-40 and I-73/74, all converge. IKEA lovers from Charlotte and Raleigh would commute to Guilford County which just happens to be the center of the home furnishings industry in this state as well as the "home furnishings capital of the world" (High Point). Charlotte and Raleigh don't have to get everything first just because they are bigger. I realize IKEA has a checklist in regards to expansion but they should make some exceptions. The Triad is a unique case. A good argument could have been made for IKEA being built in Greensboro instead of Charlotte.

Greensboro/High Point/Triad area

1) close to 2 million
2) location (center of the three big metros in NC....roughly 6 million people within a 100 mile radius)
3) major interstate highways

4) furniture/home furnishings heritage and a tested market for attracting thousands of people from all over the world for it's international home furnishings market. Each market held twice a year attracts over 100,000 people.
That's a very logical strategy but it wasn't followed. Even back to the mid 80s I was lobbying Ikea to open a store in NC (I filled out comment cards every time I went to the one in Woodbridge VA). I had always thought that Greensboro made the most sense for a NC Ikea because of its central location in the Piedmont Crescent. Unfortunately that didn't happen and now the sad reality for the Triad is that it probably will not get an Ikea for many, many years to come (if ever). A second NC Ikea will most likely go to the Triangle and it's probably a good bet that it would be located in SE Wake County along I-40 near Garner. This way it would serve not only the Triangle but have access to Wilmington, Fayetteville and the I-95 corridor. Look for Ikea to pull the trigger on the Triangle when it crosses the 2 million mark later this decade.
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Old 02-21-2013, 08:13 PM
 
Location: Greensboro, NC USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arbyunc View Post
gsoboi, your "lifestyle village" is interesting in concept, but I don't think it would make sense to the marketing folks of the companies you mention. Why would a Kirkland's want to be in the same complex with Pottery Barn, World Market, etc., who are direct competitors? Same with Badcock, Ashley, Rooms to Go...you don't want your customers to be able to simply walk next door to compare the other guy's offerings. That would be very risky unless you have a virtually unlimited supply of customers to support having that many choices in one place.
Its the same strategy Home Depot, Lowes, Walmart and Target uses. Have you noticed that everywhere there is a Home Depot, a Lowes is nearby. Have you wondered why Trader Joe's likes to open stores within walking distance to Whole Foods. On Randleman Rd in Greensboro, there are three auto stores directly next to one another (Auto Zone, Advanced Auto and Oreilly). You would think that logic suggests there is no need for three auto stores, that carry the same products, to be next to one another. World Market is directly next to Bed Bath and Beyond in Greensboro. In Charlotte there is a home furnishings/furniture store across the street from IKEA. So yes there is a strategy locating a store near like stores. In regards to those furnishings stores, yes they are competitors but they also carry many products their other competitors don't carry. Rooms to go has different kind of furniture from Ashley's. Pottery Barn carries different kind of products than Pier 1.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rnc2mbfl View Post
That's a very logical strategy but it wasn't followed. Even back to the mid 80s I was lobbying Ikea to open a store in NC (I filled out comment cards every time I went to the one in Woodbridge VA). I had always thought that Greensboro made the most sense for a NC Ikea because of its central location in the Piedmont Crescent. Unfortunately that didn't happen and now the sad reality for the Triad is that it probably will not get an Ikea for many, many years to come (if ever). A second NC Ikea will most likely go to the Triangle and it's probably a good bet that it would be located in SE Wake County along I-40 near Garner. This way it would serve not only the Triangle but have access to Wilmington, Fayetteville and the I-95 corridor. Look for Ikea to pull the trigger on the Triangle when it crosses the 2 million mark later this decade.
Sometimes the Triad being in the middle is a blessing but other times its a curse particularly when Charlotte and the Triangle gets things before the Triad. If the Triangle get IKEA next, the Triad will never get one because there would be two IKEA stores within 100 miles of Greensboro. The Triad's population would have to be like 5 times its current population to get one then.

Last edited by gsoboi78; 02-21-2013 at 08:34 PM..
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Old 02-21-2013, 08:55 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsoboi78 View Post
Its the same strategy Home Depot, Lowes, Walmart and Target uses. Have you noticed that everywhere there is a Home Depot, a Lowes is nearby. Have you wondered why Trader Joe's likes to open stores within walking distance to Whole Foods. On Randleman Rd in Greensboro, there are three auto stores directly next to one another (Auto Zone, Advanced Auto and Oreilly). You would think that logic suggests there is no need for three auto stores, that carry the same products, to be next to one another. World Market is directly next to Bed Bath and Beyond in Greensboro. In Charlotte there is a home furnishings/furniture store across the street from IKEA. So yes there is a strategy locating a store near like stores. In regards to those furnishings stores, yes they are competitors but they also carry many products their other competitors don't carry. Rooms to go has different kind of furniture from Ashley's. Pottery Barn carries different kind of products than Pier 1.
Drug stores do the same thing.
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Old 02-22-2013, 06:10 AM
 
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^ Yes, I realize it's a common strategy, but in most cases it's only one or two competitors at play. I understood the suggestion was to have half a dozen home accessory stores, furniture stores, etc. in the same complex. That would be an extreme risk from a marketing perspective, unless (as I mentioned earlier) there is a virtually limitless supply of customers. This can work--the Tanger Outlets is an example--but there has to be something to draw masses of customers. In Tanger's case, it's the fact that they are outlet stores with (typically) better prices than the regular stores of the same franchise. I wouldn't drive 30-50 miles to shop at a Kirkland's store just because there was also a Pier 1 or World Market next door--I'd just shop at the one here in Winston-Salem.

That said, I do agree there's an opportunity to take advantage of the convergence of I-40, I-85, and I-73 in Greensboro, and of course there's plenty of open space around the new highway interchanges. I just think it would make more sense to build a complex that's broader in its offerings as opposed to saturating it with similar stores. For example, a big box home improvement store along with a furniture store and maybe a couple of accessory stores would have more sales potential than 4 furniture stores all fighting for the same customers.
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Old 02-22-2013, 06:20 AM
 
Location: Greensboro, NC USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arbyunc View Post
^ Yes, I realize it's a common strategy, but in most cases it's only one or two competitors at play. I understood the suggestion was to have half a dozen home accessory stores, furniture stores, etc. in the same complex. That would be an extreme risk from a marketing perspective, unless (as I mentioned earlier) there is a virtually limitless supply of customers. This can work--the Tanger Outlets is an example--but there has to be something to draw masses of customers. In Tanger's case, it's the fact that they are outlet stores with (typically) better prices than the regular stores of the same franchise. I wouldn't drive 30-50 miles to shop at a Kirkland's store just because there was also a Pier 1 or World Market next door--I'd just shop at the one here in Winston-Salem.

That said, I do agree there's an opportunity to take advantage of the convergence of I-40, I-85, and I-73 in Greensboro, and of course there's plenty of open space around the new highway interchanges. I just think it would make more sense to build a complex that's broader in its offerings as opposed to saturating it with similar stores. For example, a big box home improvement store along with a furniture store and maybe a couple of accessory stores would have more sales potential than 4 furniture stores all fighting for the same customers.
I would suggest making it a shopping entertainment destination so there is a bigger draw. I don't know why local developers here are scared to take bigger risks in the Triad. Something big needs to built to attract people from other areas of the state. Look at the water park in Greensboro. Emerald Pointe draws people from Charlotte and Raleigh because of our central location. In fact its the 10th most visited water park in the United States and its an isolated water park in Greensboro without a theme park. Imagine how successful a theme park would have been if it had been built in Greensboro. That almost happened. The land where Grandover sits today was suppose to be home to a Busch Brewery and Busch Gardens theme park. The land deal went sour and Busch decided to build their Brewery and theme park in Williamsburg, VA instead. The days of building theme parks are over so don't expect it to happen in Greensboro now. People are unaware of the Triad's potential and leaders and developers here don't seem to have the drive to take this region to the next tier. Only one man I can think of that had that kind of drive and his name was Joseph Koury. But he is dead and gone. Without Joe Koury's leadership, Koury Corporation turned into just another development company. I'll bet you Joe Koury was rolling over in his grave when Koury Corp sold the mall. He had plans to expand the mall and connect it to the hotel/convention center. Joe Koury had a vision for Greensboro and his projects were ahead of Greensboro's time. He built a 1,000 room convention hotel in Greensboro. Joe was well aware of Greensboro's central location at an interstate highway crossroads being an advantage. Even today Charlotte doesn't even have a 1,000 room hotel. Today Greensboro's convention hotel is still the tallest hotel in North Carolina. Joe Koury built the sprawling Grandover Resort which would have been larger in size and scope if he had not died. The resort has 240 hotel rooms but his plans were to expand it to 900 rooms almost giving Greensboro two hotels with 1,000 rooms. Grandover was suppose to have a "Venice, Italy" style retail village with entertainment, promenades, waterways and gondolas. It was to be a major tourist attraction.

Here is what the Grandover hotel was suppose to look like



Our leaders don't have a "big city" mindset or a great vision for Greensboro or the Triad. Look at Charlotte for example. Leaders there are openly talking about luring the summer world olympics to Charlotte. The reality is that Charlotte is too small for such an event. For one the requirement is to have over 40,000 hotel rooms. Charlotte only has about 30,000 in the entire region. But thats not the point. The point is despite the odds, they have the forward thinking mindset to say we should try to bring the Olympics to Charlotte. There is an old saying. If you want to go to the moon, shoot for the stars so that you land on the moon.

Last edited by gsoboi78; 02-22-2013 at 07:26 AM..
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Old 02-23-2013, 04:35 PM
 
Location: Charlotte
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsoboi78 View Post
I would suggest making it a shopping entertainment destination so there is a bigger draw. I don't know why local developers here are scared to take bigger risks in the Triad. Something big needs to built to attract people from other areas of the state. Look at the water park in Greensboro. Emerald Pointe draws people from Charlotte and Raleigh because of our central location. In fact its the 10th most visited water park in the United States and its an isolated water park in Greensboro without a theme park. Imagine how successful a theme park would have been if it had been built in Greensboro. That almost happened. The land where Grandover sits today was suppose to be home to a Busch Brewery and Busch Gardens theme park. The land deal went sour and Busch decided to build their Brewery and theme park in Williamsburg, VA instead. The days of building theme parks are over so don't expect it to happen in Greensboro now. People are unaware of the Triad's potential and leaders and developers here don't seem to have the drive to take this region to the next tier. Only one man I can think of that had that kind of drive and his name was Joseph Koury. But he is dead and gone. Without Joe Koury's leadership, Koury Corporation turned into just another development company. I'll bet you Joe Koury was rolling over in his grave when Koury Corp sold the mall. He had plans to expand the mall and connect it to the hotel/convention center. Joe Koury had a vision for Greensboro and his projects were ahead of Greensboro's time. He built a 1,000 room convention hotel in Greensboro. Joe was well aware of Greensboro's central location at an interstate highway crossroads being an advantage. Even today Charlotte doesn't even have a 1,000 room hotel. Today Greensboro's convention hotel is still the tallest hotel in North Carolina. Joe Koury built the sprawling Grandover Resort which would have been larger in size and scope if he had not died. The resort has 240 hotel rooms but his plans were to expand it to 900 rooms almost giving Greensboro two hotels with 1,000 rooms. Grandover was suppose to have a "Venice, Italy" style retail village with entertainment, promenades, waterways and gondolas. It was to be a major tourist attraction.


Carowinds takes majority of the states tourists in terms of the waterparks. You pay a little more and get an amusement park and waterpark in one. I'd say people from Greensboro go to Charlotte more often.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gsoboi78 View Post
Our leaders don't have a "big city" mindset or a great vision for Greensboro or the Triad.
This is largely due to the fact that Greensboro and Winston Salem compete more with each other than Greensboro and any other city in the state. Or the fact that Greensboro isn't a "big city" at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gsoboi78 View Post
Look at Charlotte for example. Leaders there are openly talking about luring the summer world olympics to Charlotte. The reality is that Charlotte is too small for such an event. For one the requirement is to have over 40,000 hotel rooms. Charlotte only has about 30,000 in the entire region. But thats not the point. The point is despite the odds, they have the forward thinking mindset to say we should try to bring the Olympics to Charlotte. There is an old saying. If you want to go to the moon, shoot for the stars so that you land on the moon.
First off, they're referring to the 2014 Games. 11 years away, which gives Charlotte plenty of time to grow and with the rates Charlotte is growing, isn't impossible. Who said a city had to be a certian size to host the Olympics anyways?

Second, Charlotte has more than 30,000 hotel rooms thanks to the DNC and hotel under construction in Uptown.

The truth of the matter is, the Triangle will get an IKEA before the Triad does. The Triangle will host the Olympics before the Triad does. The Triangle will host the Super Bowl before the Triad does, ect, ect, ect.
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Old 02-23-2013, 04:44 PM
 
Location: Somewhere in America
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Originally Posted by fltonc12 View Post
Carowinds takes majority of the states tourists in terms of the waterparks. You pay a little more and get an amusement park and waterpark in one. I'd say people from Greensboro go to Charlotte more often.

First off, they're referring to the 2014 Games. 11 years away, which gives Charlotte plenty of time to grow and with the rates Charlotte is growing, isn't impossible. Who said a city had to be a certian size to host the Olympics anyways?

The truth of the matter is, the Triangle will get an IKEA before the Triad does. The Triangle will host the Olympics before the Triad does. The Triangle will host the Super Bowl before the Triad does, ect, ect, ect.
Carowinds also gets SC visitors. SC folks are much more apt to go to Carowinds than Emerald Pointe in general. And I'm not just talking about folks in Rock Hill. People from Aiken go to Charlotte for the shopping. I know because I used to live in Aiken and would go to Charlotte every few months as would friends of mine.

With the Olympics, every event is NOT held in the host city. Look at Atlanta. The equestrian events were held over an hour from the city! Many other events were held far away as well. This is typical of the Olympics.

The Triangle will get just about anything long before the Triad. Why? MONEY! Population as well. For some reason, Durham doesn't seem to compete with Raleigh like Winston-Salem competes with Greensboro.
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