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Let's just take a look at the poll numbers above, after 5 years or so now, and close this conversation. It's just a needless barking contest.
I merged this and most of Greensboro vs Winston Salem threads created since 2007 and this conversation has continued for the last 6 years and will continue for six more .
It is only barking to you but there is alot good information being shared like in any the city vs city threads on city-data.
I merged this and most of Greensboro vs Winston Salem threads created since 2007 and this conversation has continued for the last 6 years and will continue for six more .
It is only barking to you but there is alot good information being shared like in any the city vs city threads on city-data.
And guessing by wsnc's location I don't see why it matters to him anyway.
going by his figures (524 million) take two of those projects away and it down to 249 million. So yes one or two projects can account for a big part of the overall "financial" investment.
Honestly I could go on with a break down list of even more projects in downtown Greensboro so until EVERY project is researched we'll never have exact figures. Overall Greensboro has more ambitious projects. Much of W-S investments are renovation projects. Nothing wrong with that. W-S biggest downtown investment is obviously the research park. Greensboro is embarking on an investment just as large with its planned downtown University District.
Last edited by SunnyKayak; 04-18-2013 at 06:53 PM..
Reason: orphan: the post you replied to was deleted
Here's the statement in question that's responsible for the turn in this discussion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsoboi78
From what I see, Winston-Salem has more than Greensboro on the drawing board but very little has happened yet.
So even if Greensboro has built more downtown over the past couple of years, it's been demonstrated that it's really not true that "very little" has occurred in downtown Winston-Salem over that same time frame. *Less* than Greensboro? Possibly. *Very little*? No.
New forum member here. I live in Charlotte but visit a lot of other cities throughout NC (and elsewhere).
Not a fan of city vs city debates as they seem always to run into negative territory but I thought I would chime in.
Pros and Cons of Winston Salem
Pros:
- Impressive downtown for a city it's size.
- Downtown development is spread throughout so it's not just focused on one strip
- The little arts district
- Easy to access downtown via highway
Cons:
- The previous Pro of development throughout downtown has a few holes in it (visual/pedestrian wise) that work against the downtown experience.
- While it has several strong economic drivers they are small and I think the city needs to get something going about it's direction/focus or else it will lose out in attracting people/business.
- The triad airport is clearly more in Greensboro's neck of the woods
-The city seems to be on the more conservative side which seems at battle with it's "Arts" city aspect. I think it needs to loosen up a little to attract a younger generation.
Pros and Cons of Greensboro
Pros:
-Elm Street - It's really a great strip strip that is the back-bone of downtown
- Coliseum Area - Probably the greatest marketable asset for the city as far as attracting tourism via trade shows/events
- The whole focus on becoming an event location for trade shows/sporting tournaments is a smart goal
- Airport - clearly favors (geographically) Greensboro
Cons:
- Downtown (outside of Elm) just feels dead/forgotten. There are things here and there (stadium) but there never seems like there is a reason to explore beyond the strip.
- Downtown is not easily accessible via interstate. I'm not talking how close it is so much as the feeling of "where am I; did I take the right exit?" once you get off the interstate for a while in your ride
- The gap between the Coliseum and Downtown pedestrian wise/visually is fairly significant. They are more independent of each other than feeding off of each other/building a greater experience.
- The city seems to run on a lot of dysfunction. I've been in awe of how many times over the last few years that the city seems to blow out of proportion projects to the point that I don't see many developers wanting to get involved in Greensboro. It's just a reputation thing.
Hope all take my views with a grain of salt and appreciation of just an outsider who visits both cities on occasion.
New forum member here. I live in Charlotte but visit a lot of other cities throughout NC (and elsewhere).
Not a fan of city vs city debates as they seem always to run into negative territory but I thought I would chime in.
Pros and Cons of Winston Salem
Pros:
- Impressive downtown for a city it's size.
- Downtown development is spread throughout so it's not just focused on one strip
- The little arts district
- Easy to access downtown via highway
Cons:
- The previous Pro of development throughout downtown has a few holes in it (visual/pedestrian wise) that work against the downtown experience.
- While it has several strong economic drivers they are small and I think the city needs to get something going about it's direction/focus or else it will lose out in attracting people/business.
- The triad airport is clearly more in Greensboro's neck of the woods
-The city seems to be on the more conservative side which seems at battle with it's "Arts" city aspect. I think it needs to loosen up a little to attract a younger generation.
Pros and Cons of Greensboro
Pros:
-Elm Street - It's really a great strip strip that is the back-bone of downtown
- Coliseum Area - Probably the greatest marketable asset for the city as far as attracting tourism via trade shows/events
- The whole focus on becoming an event location for trade shows/sporting tournaments is a smart goal
- Airport - clearly favors (geographically) Greensboro
Cons:
- Downtown (outside of Elm) just feels dead/forgotten. There are things here and there (stadium) but there never seems like there is a reason to explore beyond the strip.
- Downtown is not easily accessible via interstate. I'm not talking how close it is so much as the feeling of "where am I; did I take the right exit?" once you get off the interstate for a while in your ride
- The gap between the Coliseum and Downtown pedestrian wise/visually is fairly significant. They are more independent of each other than feeding off of each other/building a greater experience.
- The city seems to run on a lot of dysfunction. I've been in awe of how many times over the last few years that the city seems to blow out of proportion projects to the point that I don't see many developers wanting to get involved in Greensboro. It's just a reputation thing.
Hope all take my views with a grain of salt and appreciation of just an outsider who visits both cities on occasion.
I will disagree about the ease of access to downtown W-S, while it may be closer to highway 52 the exits can be convoluted and you can get turned around quickly. Business 40 really provides limited access.
I have been troubled by the lack of enticement for straying off Elm St as well. This may be perhaps due in part to more 9-5 business and lack of retail off Elm because during the day people are all over the place.
While downtown Gboro may not have direct interstate access you have multiple arteries that make getting in and out easy.
It really is frustrating to see development/revitalization almost totally focused on Elm Street. Elm Street is already strong, vibrant and will take care of its self. Downtown Greensboro is roughly a square mile and there are so many opportunities for redevelopment. A streetscaping plan for the square mile downtown would be a start. In regards to Elm Street I would like to downtown expanded even further south along Elm with redevelopment. I would like to see a new district along South Elm Street from Lee Street to the north and where South Elm and Eugene Streets converge to the south called "midtown" The urban core would then be expanded to two miles from North to South (the length of uptown Charlotte). In fact plans for the South Elm/Lee St project shows this entire area highlighted for future urban redevelopment.
In terms of highway access to downtown Greensboro, people typically refer to I-40. People forget about Highway 29 which is barely one mile east of downtown Greensboro. Highway 29 through Greensboro is a lot like Highway 52 through Winston-Salem. Highway 29 is so close to downtown Greensboro, the city's skyline is clearly visible from some parts of the highway. Highway 29 borders NC A&T State University to the east and downtown borders NC A&T State University to the west.
New forum member here. I live in Charlotte but visit a lot of other cities throughout NC (and elsewhere).
Not a fan of city vs city debates as they seem always to run into negative territory but I thought I would chime in.
Pros and Cons of Winston Salem
Pros:
- Impressive downtown for a city it's size.
- Downtown development is spread throughout so it's not just focused on one strip
- The little arts district
- Easy to access downtown via highway
Cons:
- The previous Pro of development throughout downtown has a few holes in it (visual/pedestrian wise) that work against the downtown experience.
- While it has several strong economic drivers they are small and I think the city needs to get something going about it's direction/focus or else it will lose out in attracting people/business.
- The triad airport is clearly more in Greensboro's neck of the woods
-The city seems to be on the more conservative side which seems at battle with it's "Arts" city aspect. I think it needs to loosen up a little to attract a younger generation.
Pros and Cons of Greensboro
Pros:
-Elm Street - It's really a great strip strip that is the back-bone of downtown
- Coliseum Area - Probably the greatest marketable asset for the city as far as attracting tourism via trade shows/events
- The whole focus on becoming an event location for trade shows/sporting tournaments is a smart goal
- Airport - clearly favors (geographically) Greensboro
Cons:
- Downtown (outside of Elm) just feels dead/forgotten. There are things here and there (stadium) but there never seems like there is a reason to explore beyond the strip.
- Downtown is not easily accessible via interstate. I'm not talking how close it is so much as the feeling of "where am I; did I take the right exit?" once you get off the interstate for a while in your ride
- The gap between the Coliseum and Downtown pedestrian wise/visually is fairly significant. They are more independent of each other than feeding off of each other/building a greater experience.
- The city seems to run on a lot of dysfunction. I've been in awe of how many times over the last few years that the city seems to blow out of proportion projects to the point that I don't see many developers wanting to get involved in Greensboro. It's just a reputation thing.
Hope all take my views with a grain of salt and appreciation of just an outsider who visits both cities on occasion.
This is pretty much accurate. I've lived in Greensboro for years and even with the redevelopment efforts I still think Winston-Salem has a better downtown. It feels like a miniaturized or compact version of a bigger city's downtown area. Everything is right up the street or right around the corner or a few blocks over LOL. In Greensboro it is Elm St. and then what?
I also feel like Greensboro is ignoring some problems that are bubbling right below the surface in regards to the downtown area. The same problems that killed Carolina Circle Mall (if you remember that place) and is killing Four Seasons Town Center. Go downtown and walk up and down the main Elm St. strip on a Saturday night anywhere from 8:00 PM to midnight and you'll see what I mean.
I don't really like comparing the 2 cities as I feel the triad is in it together, but I believe that both cities are fairly equal in many ways. However, there is no getting around the Interstate highway advantage of Greensboro, vs. that of Winston Salem. I-40/85 currently bring many more visitors near and through Greensboro than in Winston Salem. Don't get me wrong, the I-40 loop around Greensboro is not good for the city proper but the new belt line still creates additional development. Of course, the Interstate system cannot be helped as it is a function of geography as Greensboro is located more inline with the other populated sections of the state. This is no different than when the railroad bypassed W-S back in the last century until W-S basically built their own spur into Gso. With that, Greensboro feels busier because it has more pass through traffic that can create outside financial assistance. W-S is more isolated by comparison and has more difficulty pulling in easy outside traffic. If one ignores the advantages of the better highway system in Greensboro however, I feel that W-S does better in their presentation to the area with their infrastructure. Greensboro seems to have more still to do considering their inherit advantages of the highway, airport, and railroad, for commerce and recreational visits. Still though, I have a weakness for Winston Salem and tend to like the location and feel of the city.
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