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Old 03-07-2016, 11:34 AM
 
Location: North Greensboro
823 posts, read 1,017,219 times
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Well, This is coming along rather well, aside from so many skepticism's and naysayers, That is excellent news! it's going to look so nice beside Bellemeade "plaza"

Definitely the most ambitious project i have seen planned outside of the Construction in Charlotte, RTP and WFIQ.

I'm ready to see some Renderings! i'm very excited, if you can't already tell.
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Old 03-07-2016, 05:30 PM
 
Location: Greensboro, NC USA
4,580 posts, read 4,401,372 times
Reputation: 1488
The latest news proves Carroll is serious and that this is not some dream project. That fact that a number of medium sized and large size businesses are interested and willing to pay above market rent shows how viable this project is. But before we pop the champagne bottle Carroll has to find that anchor tenant first. I believe it will happen. Project 561 will drastically alter Greensboro's skyline. Combine that with a 12-story Wyndham hotel and several mid-rise buildings in the works and downtown is going to have some serious height and density. Unlike the rest of the downtown towers, project 561 will be tall enough to be visible from I-85 (loop). With the spire the tower will be as tall as an office building with 40 floors or a residential or hotel tower with 50 floors. To get an idea how tall project 561 will be, the photo below is a 50-story residential tower in Charlotte called the Vue. Its 560 ft, one foot shorter




Last edited by gsoboi78; 03-07-2016 at 05:58 PM..
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Old 03-10-2016, 09:03 PM
 
6,611 posts, read 6,926,424 times
Reputation: 4077
Talking to possible tenants and releasing renderings doesn't make the project any closer to a reality...it's fine if you want to get prematurely excited about a project, but you should also realize the vast number of projects across the globe that are very serious about development but never get off the ground due to any number of factors.

I'm sure everyone who you call skeptics and naysayers are actually wishing this would get built...we are all skyscraper enthusiasts. But we have also seen and experienced countless grandiose proposals that are quite honestly a fantasy, and this one easily fits the bill. It isn't said to hurt your feelings, but I just can't imagine the demand for office space in Greensboro being there to make this tower a reality. Major, booming cities across the US aren't building 500' office buildings for the most part so it's hard to imagine it happening here.

I'm firmly in the hopeful but "we'll see" group.
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Old 03-11-2016, 06:33 AM
 
552 posts, read 310,137 times
Reputation: 477
JoeTarheel I'm afraid that your comments will fall on deaf ears. Many have made the same arguments for years. I understand that info is being "released" on this project to make it seem feasible, but the reality is that the economics around this project (as laid out) just doesn't make sense.


Why would any tenant, whether they are local or not, pay a premium price to lease space in a new office tower in downtown Greensboro when they can get much cheaper office space in other areas of the city? What benefits does being in downtown Greensboro offer to a growing company that being located in the suburbs won't?


If there is not clear financial, strategic, or economic advantages for a company to be located in an office tower downtown, it makes absolutely no sense for any company to take such a lease. It would be loosing money at a time when most companies are looking to cut costs. That is just one of the issues that I see with this project. There are many, many more.
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Old 03-11-2016, 11:22 AM
 
Location: Greensboro, NC USA
4,580 posts, read 4,401,372 times
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This is coming from the same folks who said downtown couldn't support another hotel and that it was wishing thinking to see a hotel being built yet one is under construction as we speak. If Carroll can secure that anchor tenant, I don't see anything stopping the project from happening. Carroll himself said he couldn't proceed forward unless that happens. Even I know that. UNCCHgrad, several companies both big and small have said they are interested despite the higher leasing rates so that's not an issue. If it didn't make sense, we wouldn't be seeing all those office towers in uptown Charlotte where leasing rates are even higher than Roy Carroll's proposed tower. I'm sure the suburban office market is much cheaper than uptown Charlotte. Three office towers were built in downtown Greensboro back in 1989 at the same time and now 27 years later, one skyscraper is all of sudden a pipe dream? Add to the fact that office vacancy in downtown Greensboro is the lowest it's been in years.

Last edited by gsoboi78; 03-11-2016 at 11:40 AM..
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Old 03-11-2016, 11:56 AM
 
552 posts, read 310,137 times
Reputation: 477
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsoboi78 View Post
This is coming from the same folks who said downtown couldn't support another hotel and that it was wishing thinking to see a hotel being built yet one is under construction as we speak. If Carroll can secure that anchor tenant, I don't see anything stopping the project from happening. Carroll himself said he couldn't proceed forward unless that happens. Even I know that. UNCCHgrad, several companies both big and small have said they are interested despite the higher leasing rates so that's not an issue. If it didn't make sense, we wouldn't be seeing all those office towers in uptown Charlotte where leasing rates are even higher than Roy Carroll's proposed tower. I'm sure the suburban office market is much cheaper than uptown Charlotte. Three office towers were built in downtown Greensboro back in 1989 at the same time and now 27 years later, one skyscraper is all of sudden a pipe dream? Add to the fact that office vacancy in downtown Greensboro is the lowest it's been in years.


I knew that it was only a matter of time before you came with the argument about Charlotte's skyline. The fact of the matter is that the two major towers that kicked off the most recent growth of Charlotte's skyline were built and financed by the banks themselves, with plans for them to be the anchor tenants. This also happened at a time when Charlotte was starting to really boom economically. That is a heck of a lot different than a developer planning a spec tower in a city like Greensboro.


What we see happening now in Charlotte is the result of companies making strategic business decisions to lease space in towers uptown to be a part of the local uptown business scene. Let's face it, Greensboro's downtown does not have nearly the amount of white collar business appeal that Charlotte's uptown does. You cannot draw conclusions based on what happened in Charlotte, or Raleigh for that matter.
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Old 03-11-2016, 06:58 PM
 
Location: Greensboro, NC USA
4,580 posts, read 4,401,372 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uncchgrad View Post
I knew that it was only a matter of time before you came with the argument about Charlotte's skyline. The fact of the matter is that the two major towers that kicked off the most recent growth of Charlotte's skyline were built and financed by the banks themselves, with plans for them to be the anchor tenants. This also happened at a time when Charlotte was starting to really boom economically. That is a heck of a lot different than a developer planning a spec tower in a city like Greensboro.


What we see happening now in Charlotte is the result of companies making strategic business decisions to lease space in towers uptown to be a part of the local uptown business scene. Let's face it, Greensboro's downtown does not have nearly the amount of white collar business appeal that Charlotte's uptown does. You cannot draw conclusions based on what happened in Charlotte, or Raleigh for that matter.
No one is saying downtown Greensboro is going to have a dozen skyscrapers being built. Everyone is aware that Charlotte has more white collar jobs. We are talking about one skyscraper being planned which by the way has several interested tenants. There are white collar jobs in Greensboro. If there weren't the city wouldn't have a skyline at all. It's certainly not unrealistic for a city of about 300,000 to have a tower like this in its downtown. You keep ignoring the fact that three skyscrapers were built at the same time back in 1989. So it's clearly not unrealistic for one being built 27 years later. In terms of the square footage in those three towers combined, that would have been like building a tower the size of the Bank of America tower in uptown Charlotte.

Last edited by gsoboi78; 03-11-2016 at 07:12 PM..
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Old 03-11-2016, 07:25 PM
 
Location: Raleigh N.C
2,037 posts, read 2,053,420 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsoboi78 View Post
No one is saying downtown Greensboro is going to have a dozen skyscrapers being built. Everyone is aware that Charlotte has more white collar jobs. We are talking about one skyscraper being planned which by the way has several interested tenants. There are white collar jobs in Greensboro. If there weren't the city wouldn't have a skyline at all. It's certainly not unrealistic for a city of about 300,000 to have a tower like this in its downtown. You keep ignoring the fact that three skyscrapers were built at the same time back in 1989. So it's clearly not unrealistic for one being built 27 years later. In terms of the square footage in those three towers combined, that would have been like building a tower the size of the Bank of America tower in uptown Charlotte.
You believe it will happen. Everyone else thinks it not going to happen. When the first major tenant is signed. That will solve it. One way or the other.

I personally hope it happens. If it dose,I doubt it will be the tallest in NC(outside of Charlotte) for long though. Just a hunch.
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Old 03-13-2016, 08:41 PM
 
12,577 posts, read 13,307,608 times
Reputation: 8896
Quote:
Originally Posted by uncchgrad View Post
JoeTarheel I'm afraid that your comments will fall on deaf ears. Many have made the same arguments for years. I understand that info is being "released" on this project to make it seem feasible, but the reality is that the economics around this project (as laid out) just doesn't make sense.


Why would any tenant, whether they are local or not, pay a premium price to lease space in a new office tower in downtown Greensboro when they can get much cheaper office space in other areas of the city? What benefits does being in downtown Greensboro offer to a growing company that being located in the suburbs won't?


If there is not clear financial, strategic, or economic advantages for a company to be located in an office tower downtown, it makes absolutely no sense for any company to take such a lease. It would be loosing money at a time when most companies are looking to cut costs. That is just one of the issues that I see with this project. There are many, many more.
By your way of thinking no new office buildings would be built.....ever; including the Charles Aris building. Granted it is only 3 stories but it was built new from the ground up including the demolition of existing structures. If we apply your business logic Aris should have just leased already existing space but, they didn't, and I'm sure there was an existing space that would have accommodated their needs. Instead a brand new building was built........downtown.
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Old 03-13-2016, 10:39 PM
 
552 posts, read 310,137 times
Reputation: 477
Quote:
Originally Posted by WFW&P View Post
By your way of thinking no new office buildings would be built.....ever; including the Charles Aris building. Granted it is only 3 stories but it was built new from the ground up including the demolition of existing structures. If we apply your business logic Aris should have just leased already existing space but, they didn't, and I'm sure there was an existing space that would have accommodated their needs. Instead a brand new building was built........downtown.


My comments went straight over your head, but for some reason I'm not surprised.
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