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Old 06-22-2015, 08:46 AM
 
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Thanks! I wasn't certain.
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Old 06-22-2015, 08:52 AM
 
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I think that this project is a positive, if only because it demonstrates enthusiasm about Greensboro's growth and progress. That's a good thing. I don't think this is any kind of oneupsmanship toward WS, particularly. If anything, the fact that this project is literally position to be one foot taller than Charlotte's The Vue, the current #5 in NC, Carroll's sights are set elsewhere. There probably is an instinct in GSO to make sure that they establish and maintain a certain dominance over WS, as the two have long been rivals in some areas, but this building could be a net positive for the region.

Having said all that, I don't know that there's a need to go up 561 feet. I'd personally rather see the same sq ft spread across two or more buildings to continue to add density to the downtown area. And if you were to, instead, build two buildings half as tall as this project, they'd still be the second and third tallest buildings in Greensboro (taller than Jefferson Standard or Center Pointe). Heck, with 561 feet, you could build a building a foot higher than the LF building and another building that would still be in the top ten for GSO.

Obviously I know it doesn't work that way, but my point is that a single, signature building might serve one purpose, but I'd rather see it happen further down the road after the overall density and vibrancy of downtown has increased. It's already far more vibrant downtown than it was 10-15 years ago. Where might GSO be in another 10-15?
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Old 06-22-2015, 09:11 AM
 
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^ I think people see the "oneupsmanship toward WS" as frankly Roy Carroll and the media used Winston Salem's tallest as a benchmark to beat along with statements of the biggest in the region.

It's hard not to read into that and I don't fault anyone for saying they are tired of when Greensboro does things like that as it does seem a pattern in many of their announcements. I just don't see the same pattern coming from Winston Salem. It just seems like W-S is more focused on what they are doing than what they are doing in comparison to Greensboro. I could be wrong about that, but that is the perception from someone who doesn't live in the Triad but visits both cities.

I agree with you 100% about a two things though. I also think Greensboro would benefit more from the same sq feet of the proposed 561 split into two or more buildings in downtown for density and infill than one particular signature tower.

I also agree the the city's downtown has grown dramatically in the last decade as far as feel and I think it will be even better in the next 10 years.
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Old 06-22-2015, 10:19 AM
 
Location: Greensboro, NC USA
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I think the Wells Fargo building in Winston was used as a benchmark because it is the tallest building in the Triad. It could have been located in Greensboro or High Point and would have still been used as a benchmark. I get the perception though. I think the media has more to do with that than Roy Carroll. A 561 foot signature tower is more symbolic of Greensboro's growth. It's definitely an attention getter and it says to other developers local and outside of the region we are a can do city and welcome more urban downtown development. I've been waiting a long time for us to go taller than 21 stories downtown and it may finally happen.
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Old 06-22-2015, 02:02 PM
 
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I personally see Roy Carroll becoming the "unofficial mayor" of downtown Greensboro. Mr. Carroll will get this tower built with a well respected company or two in the short term. Its not wishful thinking, I truly believe that and for good reason. I do not see him running into any problems with this project for several important reasons. First, he is an extremely well respected person in the business community and has many business connections that others don't. Do not discount how important that is. Remember the saying "its not what you know but who you know". I am sure we can all relate to that in some way. Secondly, and most importantly, he has bought City View Apartments, built Centerpointe, and is currently building Bellemeade Village in that he needs to constantly keep occupied with residents. Roy Carroll has a larger vision of downtown than anyone has given him credit for, and he is moving forward with his vision. He will make sure to support his investments. Roy Carroll will see to that. Downtown by 2017 will have an abundance of residential, entertainment, and dining options. That's great and all. But the only thing it may lack is an abundance of white collar professionals to fill in the remaining gap to make a dynamic center city. Carroll knows this, and is trying to fill in this last void that downtown currently lacks. If he is able to land a large corportate headquarters relocation to his tower ( either local or non local), then the final piece will be in place. If he can entice a large company to relocate downtown he will be able to build his tower and also be able to support his three residential properties long term with additional professionals who wish to live downtown. I am assuming he will use not only his own well respected business reputation but also the upcoming Tanger Performing Arts Center, Lebauer Park, etc. to help make his case to select companies to invest downtown. It will be very hard for any local company to at least not to seriously consider such a rare opportunity to get its name on the largest tower in the region but to expand into a dynamic resurging downtown core.
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Old 06-22-2015, 05:51 PM
 
Location: Greensboro, NC USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NC-guy View Post
I don't know if anyone else saw the Allen Johnson's Sunday column in the N&R but the headline immediately got me:"Is Carroll's tower another in a long line of local Big Ideas that go pffft?" I don't think we are allowed to link to external sites here (if we can please let me know) but it is a great read if you look it up.

It starts with the whole debacle of the Greensboro Triumph back in 2007-2008. That "project" was such an obvious mess to anyone who had even the slightest bit of awareness of how real estate and investor based projects work that it was really was an embarrassment for the city and anyone who rallied behind it. I don't know if anyone remembers but it was particularly hyped by Ray Gibbs who at the time was head of the DGI and then left to work for the developer. That relationship and conflict of interest is something that hurt DGI for years afterwards as I've been told by insiders.

After recapping that, the column then asked if this (Project 561) is the same thing?

The piece was similar to my original post on this thread as it raised a lot of realistic and pragmatic questions of whether this was actually going to happened based on what we little know about the project and past foolishness of certain Greensboro advocates to just announce things as fait accompli only to see them scaled back dramatically or completely fall apart.

But, like me, the column then comes down as hopeful based on the developer in question.

The only thing I disagree with the piece is the mention of some of the successes in Greensboro as I still don't see those as completed or fully realized. For example the Union Square campus is dramatically smaller than originally hyped and while I am hopeful at the PAC, I wouldn't say anything about it as a success until it is not just built but operating successfully for at least several years.
Union Square is not complete yet. The building under construction is just the first phase. There will be another building and the mixed-use element will eventually come to fruition (hotel, parking deck, townhomes apartments retail ect)

To add to what yinzer2 said, Roy Carroll is the kind of developer who takes calculated risks and I do emphasize calculated. The man is smart, has very deep pockets and a lot of big connections. Roy does understand that in addition to parks, entertainment and residential, downtown must have more white collar jobs downtown. Its a chain reaction. More white collar jobs leads to more high end and larger residential projects which leads to more retail which leads to more white collar jobs. Project 561 is no Greensboro Triumph Center where we had a shadowy figure who had no experience of any kind of building a major urban development. Roy Carroll has a proven track record for big urban project in the Center-City. Like I said before He is quickly becoming the Joseph Koury of our time. A man with a big vision for Greensboro and has the money and connections to make it happen.

Last edited by gsoboi78; 06-22-2015 at 06:06 PM..
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Old 06-22-2015, 07:42 PM
 
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Greensboro has had quite a dry spell when it comes to tall buildings. According to skyscraperpage.com, Greensboro's most recently built high rise was the Sheraton Four Seasons, built in 1991, 24 years ago. Interestingly, the four tallest buildings in Greensboro, including the Sheraton, were all built between 1989 and 1991.

The Wells Fargo Center in Winston-Salem was built in 1995, 20 years ago. Winston's most recent downtown high rise was One West Fourth, a 15 story building completed in 2002.
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Old 06-22-2015, 08:54 PM
 
Location: Greensboro, NC USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OMT21 View Post
Greensboro has had quite a dry spell when it comes to tall buildings. According to skyscraperpage.com, Greensboro's most recently built high rise was the Sheraton Four Seasons, built in 1991, 24 years ago. Interestingly, the four tallest buildings in Greensboro, including the Sheraton, were all built between 1989 and 1991.

The Wells Fargo Center in Winston-Salem was built in 1995, 20 years ago. Winston's most recent downtown high rise was One West Fourth, a 15 story building completed in 2002.

There has certainly been a dry spell. Just a time correction.The Koury Convention Center actually opened in 1990. The 28-story Sheraton tower (known as the Holiday Inn Four Seasons at the time) was built atop the convention center in 1994. The most recent high-rise in Greensboro that was constructed was the Grandover Resort in 1997. Center Pointe was built in 2008 but technically its not a new high-rise even though the building was gutted to its steel frame. It use to be the old Wachovia building. There was a 22-story office tower/apartment building that was suppose to be built in Greensboro near PTI off of I-40 called Triad Tower. Its most likely been canceled after this many years. The website is no longer up. That plan was shelved when the economy tanked in 2007/2008. Right now downtown is slated for two high-rises and who know there could be more surprises.

This is what the Empire State Building looks like in downtown Greensboro. The city was featured in a toilet paper commercial that aired nationwide and there were aerial clips of downtown including one with the Empire State Building made of empty toilet paper rolls.


Last edited by gsoboi78; 06-22-2015 at 09:06 PM..
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Old 06-22-2015, 08:56 PM
 
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Yeah, time for new towers
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Old 06-23-2015, 05:26 PM
 
Location: Greensboro, NC USA
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To get a better idea how tall Roy Carroll's building would be, Here is the 50-story 560 ft "Vue" Condo Building in Charlotte. Its a foot shorter that Carroll's planned tower. Carroll's building wouldn't likely have 50 floors considering office building floors are a little higher than residential or hotel floors. That's why the 20-story Lincoln Financial building is still taller than the 28-story Sheraton Four Seasons. Roy said he is looking at two sites. If I had to guess which two, it would be the obvious lot next to Center Pointe but the other site could be where the former Rumba Latina club was located at the corner of Friendly Ave and Davie street (across the street from the Greensboro Cultural Arts Center and Davie Street parking deck and southeast from Center-City Park). That site is currently for sale. He is likely wanting to build the tower in the office district near the other towers and within close proximity to city parking decks. Those are the two sites that stick out in my mind.

Next to the performing arts center on the Lindsay Street side is also a possibility. There have been two renderings in the past that show a tower adjoining the performing arts center. Since the Wrangler headquarters is across the street, A VF Corp headquarters in a tower adjoining the performing arts center would be fitting. VF Corp is the parent company of Wrangler and is located in a business park in North Greensboro. Having a boutique hotel in the building attached to the performing arts center would also be strategic. There may be some clues if Carroll owns other property downtown. That information can be accessed on the county GIS website which shows a map of the city, property lines and who owns every single piece of property in the county.



Carroll's Center Pointe tower is slightly less than half the height of this building. Its exciting to think downtown Greensboro could actually get a building this tall.


Last edited by gsoboi78; 06-23-2015 at 06:09 PM..
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