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07-15-2015, 06:33 PM
 279 posts, read 278,722 times Reputation: 688

Quote:
 Originally Posted by LLN That voter fraud in certain districts is rampant. Don't bother retorting that it has not been found. That is why suspicious and not proven.
Actually anyone can retort that rampant voter fraud has not been found in NC.

The only thing it has been is misrepresented, implied, screamed about, caused some to go clutching their pearls and fearing the end of days, but proved? Nope.

The proof that it is NOT rampant is here: After initial hysteria, back-pedaling over NC voter fraud claims

But in case you can't get into an detailed analysis, let's just start with simple math followed by logic:

35,750.

That was the number of names with identifying birthdates on the NC voting rosters that had exact matches (same names with same birthdates) on voting rosters in other states. Therefore those who didn't understand automatically screamed that there was rampant voter fraud with over 35 thousand cases proven. But was it proven?

How rampant is that number in regards to the population of registered voters in NC. Well first you need to know how many there are: 6,483,736 registered voters in NC. Source: NC Government

Now maybe you don't get the math off hand, but 35,760 is just 0.55%(give or take) of 6,483,736.

You get it? The number thrown about equates a figure that is about half of one percentage point - so clearly even the raw number alone is not proving "rampant" voter fraud. If anything - the number provided proves that over 99% of the voters in this state are not committing voter fraud.

I guess though 35k is still a lot of people, eh? But remember I said start with math and follow with logic?

First the obvious: Do you think every one who is registered to vote, actually does so? I hope you know the answer, but just in case: Since 1972 NC registered voter participation rate in presidential elections years range from 59% to 70%. In non-president elections years it ranges from 37% to 62%. Sad, huh? Don't even get me started on primary elections, but you can look them up if you want. Source: NC Gov

So do you really think the criminally minded are more likely to vote over the general population? Now I can hear you now - "of course they are - they want to commit fraud" and if they all do that means those gosh darn 35,000+ people who are committing fraud are making an even bigger impact (assuming that unlike the general population all 35,000 vote in every single election )

But we still haven't determined if there really is 35,000 people doing that, now have we?

Have you ever moved in your life? In addition to registering to vote in your new district - did you ever consider writing your previous voting district to have your name stricken from their roster?

I truly doubt you have. I know I never did. In fact the idea never occurred to me. Do you know that states don't share a centralized voter registration database?

I moved from NY about a decade ago and I guarantee I am one of those people in the 35k number. Yet I never voted outside of the precinct in which I lived. How many people in this state are from other states?

I personally don't know, but I have an idea: "Between 2011 and 2012, North Carolina gained nearly 35,000 net migrants. The total flows into and out of the state were nearly 8 times as large: nearly 240,000 residents moved out while another 275,000 moved in." Source: Visualizing State-to-State Migration 275,000 people in the space of just 2 years moved into NC from other states!

Care to guess how many even thought of having their names removed from their old voting precincts? Just to be a smart aleck I would gander less than .55%

And even with ALL of that considered, do you know that it is just within the realm of possibility that there are two or three John Smiths in several states with the same birth day? If you know anything about the popularity of baby names, you know that is far from uncommon.

But in case you don't believe me CapGemini did a mathematical proof of this.

TL : DR (Psst - that's smart aleck ways of saying Too Long Didn't Read): The 35,000 number thrown around as proof of rampant voter fraud in NC is a raw number that doesn't consider the errors in other states voter registration, people having the same names/birth dates, and accepting that even without accounting for those truths the raw number is about 1/2 of 1% of registered voters.

Last edited by NC-guy; 07-15-2015 at 06:43 PM..

07-15-2015, 07:00 PM
 Location: Southport 4,639 posts, read 4,814,440 times Reputation: 3417
When carefully analyzed, the 35,000 actually became 765, most of which could also be explained. Voter fraud is virtually non-existent. Its nothing but a smokescreen.

07-15-2015, 07:05 PM
 279 posts, read 278,722 times Reputation: 688
Quote:
 Originally Posted by carolinadawg2 When carefully analyzed, the 35,000 actually became 765, most of which could also be explained. Voter fraud is virtually non-existent. Its nothing but a smokescreen.
Yeah - that too!

07-15-2015, 08:35 PM
 51 posts, read 43,666 times Reputation: 105
Quote:
 Originally Posted by carolinadawg2 When carefully analyzed, the 35,000 actually became 765, most of which could also be explained. Voter fraud is virtually non-existent. Its nothing but a smokescreen.
Thanks. I feel better now. I'm glad to know that, according to you, there is NO voter fraud. None at all! Thanks for clearing that up and reassuring us all!

Let's accept your premise and say that no voter fraud has been proven. Does this mean none has occurred, just because it hasn't been proven? Of course not. And do you think if it was proven today's liberal media would report it and give it the scrutiny it deserves when there are important Confederate flag controversies to report?

I think it's pretty reasonable for people to show an ID and prove who they are before they vote. I think the vast majority of the public does too. It adds some integrity to the voting process, and 30 other states already require it.

And a week or so should be enough time for early voting. One day used to be sufficient for many, many years, through elections where republicans, and democrats were elected. There are just too many opportunities to get an ID and fill out a ballot in a 2015 America. I'm just not buying these grievances.

Remember ACORN and how it was disbanded in 2010 after videotaped evidence of voter fraud??
http://wikipedia.org/wiki/Associatio...for_Reform_Now

Last edited by OMT21; 07-15-2015 at 09:04 PM..

07-16-2015, 04:06 AM
 Location: Southport 4,639 posts, read 4,814,440 times Reputation: 3417
Quote:
 Originally Posted by OMT21 Thanks. I feel better now. I'm glad to know that, according to you, there is NO voter fraud. None at all! Thanks for clearing that up and reassuring us all!

Where's YOU'RE data?

07-16-2015, 03:13 PM
 Location: Upstairs closet 4,981 posts, read 8,750,911 times Reputation: 6451
I don't even know or care about the 35,000 or 750, whatever.

The absolute fear of showing an ID to vote is caused by something dark, evil and deep seated. Some well orchestrated and undetected fraudulent practice certainly seems reasonable. There has got to be a reason.

To think something untoward is not going on demonstrates an alarming level of naïveté!

07-16-2015, 05:55 PM
 Location: Southport 4,639 posts, read 4,814,440 times Reputation: 3417
Quote:
 Originally Posted by LLN I don't even know or care about the 35,000 or 750, whatever. The absolute fear of showing an ID to vote is caused by something dark, evil and deep seated. Some well orchestrated and undetected fraudulent practice certainly seems reasonable. There has got to be a reason. To think something untoward is not going on demonstrates an alarming level of naïveté!
Yes, don't confuse me with the facts, my mind is already made up! lol

I do agree with your last sentence however...but I'd apply towards the republican leadership in the general assembly and those who blindly follow their lead!

07-16-2015, 06:45 PM
 7,279 posts, read 13,530,952 times Reputation: 3610
I don't think it's too complicated. People who are less likely to have an ID (poor people, people in cities) are more likely to vote Democrat. It's in the interest of Democrats and other progressives to fight ID requirements that would make voting more difficult for members of their electorate. And it's in the interest of Republicans to make changes that make it less likely that people who rarely vote for them are able to cast a vote.

Everything else is just rhetoric.

07-16-2015, 07:51 PM
 Location: Southport 4,639 posts, read 4,814,440 times Reputation: 3417
Quote:
 Originally Posted by CarolinaBredChicagoan I don't think it's too complicated. People who are less likely to have an ID (poor people, people in cities) are more likely to vote Democrat. It's in the interest of Democrats and other progressives to fight ID requirements that would make voting more difficult for members of their electorate. And it's in the interest of Republicans to make changes that make it less likely that people who rarely vote for them are able to cast a vote. Everything else is just rhetoric.
Yes, you are correct...republicans wish to suppress voting. Thats the whole idea behind the bill. Its unfair, anti-democratic (with a small "d") and hopefully illegal.

07-17-2015, 07:24 AM
 Location: Upstairs closet 4,981 posts, read 8,750,911 times Reputation: 6451
I don't know guys.

Keeping it simple. If it is important enough for one to vote, how can it possibly not be important enough to get an ID.

Speaking of facts, how many potential voters cannot get an ID..they've only had years, you know!

Instead of busing in protestors, these so called activist would be better served to reach out to anyone needing an ID and help them get one.

OBTW, I am on you guy's side on the GOP in NC and its insane actions, for the most part, in the General Assembly, but I just can't see any harm, whatsoever, in having an official ID to cast an official vote.
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