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Old 07-17-2015, 07:56 AM
 
7,278 posts, read 13,525,158 times
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To be clear, I'm not talking about who should vote or who should get IDs or anything like that. I have my opinion on the matter, but that's not what I'm talking about.

I'm saying that, all political rhetoric aside, there's a very clear set of motivations at work here that has very little to do with voter fraud. GOP leaders know that, all things being equal, barriers to easy voting are more likely to create downward pressure on Democratic votes than Republican votes. There's been lots of research done on this topic, and there are lots of explanations, but it's a fairly well established fact in political research. So the GOP has a vested interest in restricting voting, and the Democrats have a vested interest in resisting those restrictions.

Suspicions aside, there's little evidence to suggest that voter fraud is a big problem in NC (or many places in the US), but that entire conversation seems to me to be smoke and mirrors. Get people riled up around voter fraud when this is really about practical political aims around managing who votes.
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Old 07-17-2015, 08:14 AM
 
279 posts, read 278,504 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LLN View Post
I don't even know or care about the 35,000 or 750, whatever.

The absolute fear of showing an ID to vote is caused by something dark, evil and deep seated. Some well orchestrated and undetected fraudulent practice certainly seems reasonable. There has got to be a reason.

To think something untoward is not going on demonstrates an alarming level of naïveté!
Since you were the one who claimed rampant voter fraud and said no one could prove otherwise I find your switching of point dubious at best.
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Old 07-17-2015, 05:24 PM
 
51 posts, read 43,647 times
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Originally Posted by CarolinaBredChicagoan View Post
There's been lots of research done on this topic, and there are lots of explanations, but it's a fairly well established fact in political research. So the GOP has a vested interest in restricting voting, and the Democrats have a vested interest in resisting those restrictions.
That's a pretty broad generalization. What about independents, who are beginning to make up a large segment of the electorate? What do you think their view is?

I'm sorry, but the "poor people can't get an ID" argument just doesn't hold water. It just doesn't. The state board of elections website clearly states that IDs can be obtained for free at the local DMV. What's the excuse now?

You must've been in Chicago too long, where the old saying is, "vote early and vote often!"

NCSBE Home
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Old 07-17-2015, 05:47 PM
 
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Originally Posted by OMT21 View Post
I'm sorry, but the "poor people can't get an ID" argument just doesn't hold water. It just doesn't. The state board of elections website clearly states that IDs can be obtained for free at the local DMV. What's the excuse now?
They can vote by mail which doesn't require an ID. It's also more likely to be the source of real voter fraud, but the voter ID laws don't cover mail-in ballots. Wonder why that is?
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Old 07-17-2015, 07:29 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Mutiny77 View Post
They can vote by mail which doesn't require an ID. It's also more likely to be the source of real voter fraud, but the voter ID laws don't cover mail-in ballots. Wonder why that is?
I have no idea. I am not an expert on the matter. You tell me. Why is it?
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Old 07-17-2015, 07:42 PM
 
7,278 posts, read 13,525,158 times
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I'm not saying poor people can't get an ID. I'm saying that the people who more often do not have IDs are poor and/or live in cities. Minorities are more likely to not have IDs, as are some populations of elderly people. There's a lot of overlap between those who don't have IDs and those who typically vote Democrat. I'm not taking about anyone's views. I'm just taking about voter behavior.

And when I say the GOP has a vested interest or the Democrats have a vested interest, I'm not talking about individuals who vote Republican or Democrat. I'm talking about the parties as organizations and the candidates and elected officials who represent those parties. My point is that this whole debate is less ideological and more practical than the rhetoric suggests.
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Old 07-17-2015, 08:32 PM
 
51 posts, read 43,647 times
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I see where you're coming from but you're suggesting the republicans want to supress the vote, which I disagree with. I may have too much faith left in politicians though. I do think republicans want to prevent fraud being used against them. Regardless, since the vast majority supports voter ID, as polls have shown, they are doing exactly what the majority wants them to do, even if their motives are political.

Last edited by OMT21; 07-17-2015 at 08:40 PM..
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Old 07-18-2015, 03:11 AM
 
84 posts, read 191,234 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarolinaBredChicagoan View Post
I'm not saying poor people can't get an ID. I'm saying that the people who more often do not have IDs are poor and/or live in cities. Minorities are more likely to not have IDs, as are some populations of elderly people. There's a lot of overlap between those who don't have IDs and those who typically vote Democrat. I'm not taking about anyone's views. I'm just taking about voter behavior.

And when I say the GOP has a vested interest or the Democrats have a vested interest, I'm not talking about individuals who vote Republican or Democrat. I'm talking about the parties as organizations and the candidates and elected officials who represent those parties. My point is that this whole debate is less ideological and more practical than the rhetoric suggests.
The original bill tried to grandfather the voter ID requirement away for the elderly (pun intended)- because they tend to vote Republican, but was dropped after realizing it wouldn't pass a court muster.

This is pure partisan politics, and as Republicans= lower unemployment benefits, higher income taxes for the middle class, lower wages, and higher cable prices- I support anything which helps folks vote against them.

(I'm open about it- I oppose Republicans because they're bad for my pocketbook, as well as most others as well)
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Old 07-18-2015, 06:03 AM
 
29,917 posts, read 27,355,630 times
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Originally Posted by OMT21 View Post
I have no idea. I am not an expert on the matter. You tell me. Why is it?
Absentee voters tend to be older and whiter than in-person voters. In 2012, nearly half, or 46 percent, of mail-in voters were aged 60 and older, and more than 75 percent were white, according to an analysis by Michael McDonald, a political science professor at the University of Florida who tracks demographic trends in voting. Older white Americans generally are more likely to vote Republican.

African-Americans, who overwhelmingly vote Democratic, are less likely to use mail-in ballots. Although they make up about 13 percent of the population, only 8 percent voted by mail in 2012.
Why Voter ID Laws Aren

That was easy enough.
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