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Old 02-12-2017, 12:01 PM
 
Location: charlotte
307 posts, read 161,708 times
Reputation: 251

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Lowe's sells many products that are not likely to be shipped. I agree that automation does play a role. But the devastation of many cities such as Dayton, OH and others occurred well before on-line shopping craze and automation. The media wants us to believe that NAFTA had little affect. nita0312 I do not know what you are talking about. NC has not lost mfg jobs because it is a right to work state. It being a right to work state has helped it. When NC lost jobs in textiles and furniture, they were lost to China. NC's lower wages still could not prevent the jobs from leaving. But in key mfg states, high-paying union jobs have been lost to other states that may have a lower wage as well as due to NAFTA. NC has been a recipient of many of these jobs over the years. States such as Ohio and Michigan had higher percentages of their jobs in mfg. When those jobs left, those states began to suffer. I am sure that we can all agree that those states' economies are not doing that well. So, unionized jobs are more likely to move to NC than the other way around. I think unionization at one time benefited workers. But not so much now. Companies just pick up and leave. They may move to a state like NC or move to another country. But for those of you that think that NAFTA has not played a major role in the decimation of the middle class then I do not know what to say. Are you not old enough to remember such things? Are you brain-washed by the media? There was a rather quick and sudden drop-off after the signing of NAFTA. And the drop off has continued. But I agree that on-line shopping and automation have now added to the dilemma. Textile and furniture jobs were once the two big sectors of mfg jobs in NC. They were lost to China directly due to NAFTA. It had nothing to do with automation or on-line shopping. Then consider the trickle down affect of those lost jobs. It was devastating to some communities in NC. But, unlike Michigan, Ohio, WVA and other states, NC's economy was diversified enough to overcome the problem. I remember the day when a small trinket and not much more could be purchased with the words "Made in Hong Kong or Made in China." It was usually some small little trinket that had poor quality. I would see something made in Hong Kong or China occasionally. At that time, anything made in China or Hong Kong was a joke. Now the barges come from China to the US full and go back to China empty. You can continue believing the deception spewed by the media but, I know better.
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Old 02-12-2017, 01:01 PM
 
12,577 posts, read 13,321,868 times
Reputation: 8901
Quote:
Originally Posted by The QC View Post
I am not happy about tech jobs being lost to India either. But NAFTA has destroyed the manufacturing in the US. It has hit NC particularly hard. But it has affected many states. I did not buy into the propaganda when they were selling it. The middle class has been decimated. If the free trade agreements are allowed to continue, the middle class will shrink more.
First you say this ^

Quote:
Originally Posted by The QC View Post
Lowe's sells many products that are not likely to be shipped. I agree that automation does play a role. But the devastation of many cities such as Dayton, OH and others occurred well before on-line shopping craze and automation. The media wants us to believe that NAFTA had little affect. nita0312 I do not know what you are talking about. NC has not lost mfg jobs because it is a right to work state. It being a right to work state has helped it. When NC lost jobs in textiles and furniture, they were lost to China. NC's lower wages still could not prevent the jobs from leaving.
Then you contradict with this. ^
Which one is it?

Today's corporate America is more savvy than ever, jobs will not return to the US from Mexico regardless what the current administration does. For those that do return the wages will be no better than the part time and the low paying jobs that already exist here. Corporate is going to keep their profit margin so the American consumer will either brunt the cost of tariffs or the company will source out to a country that pays less than Mexico.
Mexico is being scapegoated here. When I look around my home there are very few products manufactured in Mexico. I realize this is small picture but none of the clothing I own was produced in Mexico, nor was the furniture. Furthermore, nobody complains about the thousands of Canadians who cross back and forth across the border to work in the US yet live in Canada.
Manufacturing union jobs that left the country the workers were paid more, and had better benefits while they jobs existed. The non-union manufacturing jobs that left the country paid less with less benefits while those jobs existed. What's so great about that? Congratulations, you're the low bidder doing the same work for less money. Real intelligent.
A northerner can retire and sell their home an move south to live comfortably. Can a southerner do that, other than move to Mexico?
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Old 02-12-2017, 04:47 PM
 
240 posts, read 227,125 times
Reputation: 275
Quote:
Originally Posted by WFW&P View Post
First you say this ^



Then you contradict with this. ^
Which one is it?

Today's corporate America is more savvy than ever, jobs will not return to the US from Mexico regardless what the current administration does. For those that do return the wages will be no better than the part time and the low paying jobs that already exist here. Corporate is going to keep their profit margin so the American consumer will either brunt the cost of tariffs or the company will source out to a country that pays less than Mexico.
Mexico is being scapegoated here. When I look around my home there are very few products manufactured in Mexico. I realize this is small picture but none of the clothing I own was produced in Mexico, nor was the furniture. Furthermore, nobody complains about the thousands of Canadians who cross back and forth across the border to work in the US yet live in Canada.
Manufacturing union jobs that left the country the workers were paid more, and had better benefits while they jobs existed. The non-union manufacturing jobs that left the country paid less with less benefits while those jobs existed. What's so great about that? Congratulations, you're the low bidder doing the same work for less money. Real intelligent.
A northerner can retire and sell their home an move south to live comfortably. Can a southerner do that, other than move to Mexico?
Many of those jobs started disappearing in the 80s and 90s. My uncle was offered a very attractive early retirement package from RJR because they were looking to cut jobs. I grew up hearing about factories laying off before NAFTA in 1994.

I had a friend born and raised in Greensboro leave and return home after many years. She had lived in California, Michigan, NYC, etc. and she finally came back in the early 80s. She said she was driving through the country in the Triad and could not believe the poverty. These were all tobacco, textiles, and/or furniture factory workers. She said the homes were trailers/shacks and the cars were broken down. Living in Michigan, she said they had nice homes and cars. They weren't wealthy, but they weren't living in poverty. She attributes it to NC's anti-union stance. Businesses stoked racial tensions to keep unions out because even though you're poor, at least you're not a n-word. And that n-word shouldn't be making the same wage as you. She knows a lot of history and is much older than me, so I tend to believe her. It's odd to me that folks don't see how they go against their own interests by siding with the wealth that exploits them. The ways in which class and race interact are deep, varying, and complex.

And yes, here we are over 150 after the Civil War and the South is still the poorest region in the nation. That's not accidental.
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Old 02-12-2017, 09:08 PM
 
12,577 posts, read 13,321,868 times
Reputation: 8901
Quote:
Originally Posted by nita0312 View Post
Many of those jobs started disappearing in the 80s and 90s. My uncle was offered a very attractive early retirement package from RJR because they were looking to cut jobs. I grew up hearing about factories laying off before NAFTA in 1994.

I had a friend born and raised in Greensboro leave and return home after many years. She had lived in California, Michigan, NYC, etc. and she finally came back in the early 80s. She said she was driving through the country in the Triad and could not believe the poverty. These were all tobacco, textiles, and/or furniture factory workers. She said the homes were trailers/shacks and the cars were broken down. Living in Michigan, she said they had nice homes and cars. They weren't wealthy, but they weren't living in poverty. She attributes it to NC's anti-union stance. Businesses stoked racial tensions to keep unions out because even though you're poor, at least you're not a n-word. And that n-word shouldn't be making the same wage as you. She knows a lot of history and is much older than me, so I tend to believe her. It's odd to me that folks don't see how they go against their own interests by siding with the wealth that exploits them. The ways in which class and race interact are deep, varying, and complex.

And yes, here we are over 150 after the Civil War and the South is still the poorest region in the nation. That's not accidental.
Your uncle was lucky, many factory workers showed up to locked doors or were told on a Friday that would be their last check back then.
I have many opinions about southerners and how they work against their best interests but, I don't want to hijack this thread any longer since we are supposed to be discussing malls.
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Old 02-18-2017, 02:39 PM
 
Location: Greensboro, NC USA
4,600 posts, read 4,418,530 times
Reputation: 1510
Well news like this is the reason indoor malls are going down hill.

1 dead after shooting reported at Four Seasons Town Centre parking lot | myfox8.com

I think Winston-Salem needs an alternative to Hanes Mall. One that would feel safer and have more upscale retail options like at Friendly Center.
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Old 02-18-2017, 09:53 PM
 
12,577 posts, read 13,321,868 times
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The anti mall rhetoric really can get boorish- I don't feel safe, look another crime no wonder malls are dying, blah, blah, blah. The fact of the matter is this can happen anywhere, anytime. If people think lifestyle shopping centers are immune think again. It's all according to how it caters to your prejudices.
Remember the armored truck employee who was murdered at Friendly Center? Had this been Four Seasons the going downhill, malls are doomed, renaming High Point Rd, blah, blah, blah, would have been never been dismissed. However, since it happened at Friendly it was by and large dismissed with business as usual.
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Old 02-20-2017, 07:05 AM
 
7,279 posts, read 13,538,196 times
Reputation: 3610
I have never felt remotely unsafe at Hanes Mall. And the fact that something bad happened at another mall 30 miles away doesn't make me feel any less safe there.
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Old 03-03-2017, 11:35 AM
 
Location: Roanoke Va
65 posts, read 39,261 times
Reputation: 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsoboi78 View Post
Well news like this is the reason indoor malls are going down hill.

1 dead after shooting reported at Four Seasons Town Centre parking lot | myfox8.com

I think Winston-Salem needs an alternative to Hanes Mall. One that would feel safer and have more upscale retail options like at Friendly Center.
At least the shooting happened in the parking lot and not inside the Mall!
Its always something new about store closings from Sears, Macys, Kmart, JC Penney, etc. Im beginning to think WHY
do people bother to fight traffic, pay higher prices for cheaply made clothing and put up with gun violence at shopping centers?
There must be more to shopping than meets the eye, imo.
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Old 07-15-2018, 10:26 AM
 
Location: North Carolina
2,033 posts, read 1,752,545 times
Reputation: 1538
Four Seasons has fallen off so bad.

Went there recently and was shocked how much it had deteriorated on all levels (structurally, stores, patrons, etc)... FS used to be a preferred alternative to Hanes for some Winston residents. Despite OPs initial post, Hanes has cemented itself as the Triadís premier mall. Actually got propositioned in FS to engage in 3 card molly... in the middle of the mall.. smh. Maybe the bowling will help... if people behave themselves .
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Old 07-15-2018, 10:49 AM
 
Location: Greensboro, NC USA
4,600 posts, read 4,418,530 times
Reputation: 1510
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chadfromnc View Post
Just got back from hanes mall. Haven't been there in about two years but boy has it changed in that time frame. too many independent stores and alot of empty kiosk. Really reminded me of Four seasons. Food court had a pitifully selection. Mostly Asian foods to choose from... Afraid this mall will only get worse as most companies are focusing on life centers so they propably won't invest in updates ... By the way how many shoes stores does a mall need?? Ever other store seemed to be a shoe store definitely not the hanes mall I grew up. Heck not even the same mall as it was back in early 2000s.
This seems to be the trend in traditional indoor malls across the country. I doubt we will ever see the construction of a big regional mall in our state anytime soon unless trends change.

back in the late 90s a big indoor mall was proposed for Northwest Greensboro near Bryan Blvd. It was a good but residents fought against it and the developer backed out
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