U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > North Carolina > Greensboro, Winston-Salem, High Point
 [Register]
Greensboro, Winston-Salem, High Point The Triad Area
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 07-18-2018, 07:35 AM
 
Location: Greensboro, NC
5,756 posts, read 4,230,719 times
Reputation: 3829

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by gsoboi78 View Post
This seems to be the trend in traditional indoor malls across the country. I doubt we will ever see the construction of a big regional mall in our state anytime soon unless trends change.

back in the late 90s a big indoor mall was proposed for Northwest Greensboro near Bryan Blvd. It was a good but residents fought against it and the developer backed out
Living in that area, I can certainly believe that. Residents in Northwest do not like development. Many long time residents are sad that the once, very rural Oak Ridge, is starting to become more developed. In some ways, I understand fully. I grew up in a rural area in Bassett, Virginia, and I loved rural living. At the same time, I welcome a certain amount of development. I like the idea of being able to get to the nearest grocery store within five minutes, and a shopping center up that way would have been great!

As far as indoor malls, I think in a lot of areas, indoor malls have gotten phased out. Especially in areas that have been hit the hardest with unemployment. Not only that, but stores that would normally occupy space in the mall either outgrew the mall or went out of business.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 07-18-2018, 08:05 AM
 
Location: Greensboro, NC USA
4,580 posts, read 4,401,372 times
Reputation: 1488
Quote:
Originally Posted by skinsguy37 View Post
Living in that area, I can certainly believe that. Residents in Northwest do not like development. Many long time residents are sad that the once, very rural Oak Ridge, is starting to become more developed. In some ways, I understand fully. I grew up in a rural area in Bassett, Virginia, and I loved rural living. At the same time, I welcome a certain amount of development. I like the idea of being able to get to the nearest grocery store within five minutes, and a shopping center up that way would have been great!

As far as indoor malls, I think in a lot of areas, indoor malls have gotten phased out. Especially in areas that have been hit the hardest with unemployment. Not only that, but stores that would normally occupy space in the mall either outgrew the mall or went out of business.
Online shopping and "lifestyle centers" are the reason for the decline of traditional malls which is why we are seeing malls add entertainment elements and even residential and office in some cases.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-18-2018, 01:20 PM
 
Location: Greensboro, NC
5,756 posts, read 4,230,719 times
Reputation: 3829
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsoboi78 View Post
Online shopping and "lifestyle centers" are the reason for the decline of traditional malls which is why we are seeing malls add entertainment elements and even residential and office in some cases.
Yes, if you're going to keep the structure of an enclosed mall, you need something in there to attract people to it. I think they should come up with a mall dedicated just to restaurants. That would be the best smelling mall in town!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-18-2018, 01:34 PM
 
6,800 posts, read 4,438,238 times
Reputation: 5345
Quote:
Originally Posted by skinsguy37 View Post
Yes, if you're going to keep the structure of an enclosed mall, you need something in there to attract people to it. I think they should come up with a mall dedicated just to restaurants. That would be the best smelling mall in town!
Thats actually pretty close to happening:

"Restaurants and other food tenants used to take up just 10 or 15 percent of a shopping center a decade ago. They occupy anywhere from 20 to 40 percent today, according to research from real estate services firm the CBRE Group."

"More and more “anchor stores” at shopping malls across America are being replaced with restaurants because popular ones like The Cheesecake Factory draw just as many customers, offer a more unique and personalized experience and are more resistant to the consumer habits that seem to be increasingly migrating online every day. In a $30 million renovation to the Oakbrook Center mall in Oak Brook, Illinois, for example, the former Neiman Marcus store was subdivided into two restaurants: Perry’s Steakhouse and Old Town Pour House."

https://www.pymnts.com/news/retail/2...pping-centers/

"A suburb of Memphis plans to turn its factory outlet mall site into a large mixed-use development that includes restaurants and a hotel. The mall has been empty for more than five years. In Florida, Sears Holdings (SHLD) is asking the city of Aventura for permission to turn its department store and auto center there into an open-air village with restaurants, a hotel, office and retail space."

https://www.cbsnews.com/media/10-new...doned-malls/6/
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-18-2018, 03:11 PM
 
Location: Greensboro, NC USA
4,580 posts, read 4,401,372 times
Reputation: 1488
Quote:
Originally Posted by skinsguy37 View Post
Yes, if you're going to keep the structure of an enclosed mall, you need something in there to attract people to it. I think they should come up with a mall dedicated just to restaurants. That would be the best smelling mall in town!
One thing Four Seasons has going for it is a convention center and a 1,000 room hotel on the property. Too bad Joe Koury's dream never materialized with the hotel/convention center being connected to the mall. After Joe Koury died, Koury Corp. Lost its vision and stopped taking on big development projects like Joe Koury took on. Koury Corp became just another development company. Joe Koury was today's version of Roy Carroll. The only difference is that Joe Koury didn't invest in downtown.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-18-2018, 04:05 PM
 
Location: North Carolina
2,909 posts, read 2,013,641 times
Reputation: 5861
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsoboi78 View Post
One thing Four Seasons has going for it is a convention center and a 1,000 room hotel on the property. Too bad Joe Koury's dream never materialized with the hotel/convention center being connected to the mall. After Joe Koury died, Koury Corp. Lost its vision and stopped taking on big development projects like Joe Koury took on. Koury Corp became just another development company. Joe Koury was today's version of Roy Carroll. The only difference is that Joe Koury didn't invest in downtown.
I agree with you about Joe Koury and how he was personally invested in the mall, rather than seeing it as a line item on a spreadsheet in a distant city. What has also happened is the areas that are neglected has shifted, and not just in Greensboro, but larger and smaller cities alike.

Decades ago, the downtowns were suffering badly but recently they have become "hot" again. Now, the areas in dire need of attention are the aging suburban areas that don't have the hottest demographics (lots of households with high incomes, high education rates, etc.). So while I'm all for downtown revitalization, in many places it's those older, functionally obsolete suburbs that are now in greater need of a champion to turn things around.

On a more specific note, what has hurt Four Seasons, have been changing demographics and shopper preferences is the Chicken Little Facebook effect. The area around Hanes Mall has been relatively stable. It has neither been gentrifying nor declining much over the last few decades. The area around Four Seasons hasn't been as fortunate as that has shifted from a relatively middle class area to an area with more disadvantaged people over the last few decades and the selection of stores (i.e. more check cashing, pawn shop, cheap cell phone stores, etc.) has been apparent. On the plus side, there are some more interesting ethnic eateries and grocers that are real unique gems compared to hum drum suburbia (i.e. West Wendover).

There have indeed been some serious crimes that have happened there, and this isn't to minimize the tragedies the victims and their families dealt with involving the high profile violent crime that has happened. The double edged sword is when the perception of crime deteriorates the reputation of a once strong community focal point. People get scared, they stay away, and make comments online such as "This area is no longer safe. I'm going to shop online from now on". And then 93 other people chime in with "Me too! You can't go anywhere nowadays without violence happening. I'm not going to leave my house!" Which causes a domino effect. I've heard a very seasoned police officer say that when desirable people become fearful and stop showing ownership in an area, it gives the undesirable element even more of a green light to continue taking over the space, so it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.

As an antidote, I was texting someone in my vehicle in the parking lot there a few months ago before I went in (as it would be stupid to do so when driving). I hadn't been in my car 10 minutes before a security person wanted to know what I was doing, so there has been some heightened security since they've had some high profile crimes happen there.

Last edited by Jowel; 07-18-2018 at 04:14 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-18-2018, 05:11 PM
 
Location: Greensboro, NC USA
4,580 posts, read 4,401,372 times
Reputation: 1488
It's like a cycle. Downtowns were in decline and the suburbs were hot. Now for the most part it's the reverse. Friendly Center seems to be doing quite well and in fact keeps adding more stores. However it's pretty much a lifestyle center. Another reason why Friendly Center is doing well is because of its location. It located in an affluent area of town where crime is low. There will always be a need for brick and mortar stores but no doubt traditional indoor malls are taking a hit. Koury Corp saw that trend coming a long time ago and sold Four Seasons. At the time it didn't make sense.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-19-2018, 08:03 AM
 
Location: Greensboro, NC
5,756 posts, read 4,230,719 times
Reputation: 3829
Just so I understand, what is a "Lifestyle Center"? I have never heard that term before.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-19-2018, 08:06 AM
 
Location: Greensboro, NC USA
4,580 posts, read 4,401,372 times
Reputation: 1488
Quote:
Originally Posted by skinsguy37 View Post
Just so I understand, what is a "Lifestyle Center"? I have never heard that term before.
Basically an outdoor shopping mall meant to resemble downtowns. They typically have green spaces, fountains and Cafe seating.

The Streets at South Point in Durham is a hybrid of an enclosed mall and a lifestyle center.

One was planned around the movie theater near Four Seasons but today the land sits vacant with utility pipes sticking out of the ground.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-19-2018, 10:44 AM
 
6,800 posts, read 4,438,238 times
Reputation: 5345
Quote:
Originally Posted by skinsguy37 View Post
Just so I understand, what is a "Lifestyle Center"? I have never heard that term before.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lifestyle_center_(retail)
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:




Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > North Carolina > Greensboro, Winston-Salem, High Point
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top