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Old 11-26-2017, 07:18 AM
 
Location: Greensboro, NC USA
4,580 posts, read 4,401,372 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlotte485 View Post
1.) it is Lynx
2.) Lynx will be around 30 Miles by 2020 (not counting whatís realistically planned to be built)
3.) In Top 10 of largest airports in the world


Greensboro has as much of a chance at landing Amazon as its peer Greenville, SC. Charlotte has as much of a chance as Pittsburgh (which only has 26 Miles of mass transit rail line)

Pittsburgh Metro is 5,340 Sq Miles with a pop. Of 2.36 million
Charlotte metro is 3,198 sq. miles with a pop of 2.47 Million


I know someoneís going to ask ďwhat does Pittsburgh have to do with anything?Ē And my reasoning is to illustrate what a peer of Charlotte looks like. A peer city to Greensboro is Greenville (a very, lovely city btw). Itís literally like someone from McAllen Texas saying they have the same odds as Austin. Even though Pittsburgh doesnít come to mind as a great contender for HQ2, I would find it just as puzzling to hear that it has the same odds as Greensboro, only people from Pittsburgh thinks Pittsburgh is big, itís not a real city yet, etc.


I think Raleigh has a better chance than Charlotte and I think itís one of the top Amazon choices which I would bet 1,) Atlanta (2.) NoVa (3.) Boston (4.) Austin (5.) Dallas (6.) Jersey/NYC (7.) Toronto (8.) Raleigh


And the whole ďBut Triad can draw from all 3Ē is complete bogus. If Amazon wants to draw workers from Charlotte & Raleigh, they would split HQ2 between the two cities with CLT getting back office and admin. Jobs and Raleigh getting more tech & innovation related jobs. Thatís most likely not gonna happen, but more likely than Greensboro getting it. Raleigh & Charlotte will be connected by both of their new downtown train stations and with lots of flights.


Look at MetLife for example:




These type of jobs arenít going to locate to Greensboro to draw talent from Triangle & CLT. If they want us both, they will choose both.


Thereís a way to say you donít think Charlotte nor Raleigh will get HQ2, which I disagree with, but Iím not sure why some of you guys take it so personally when others arenít in la la land pretending Greensboro is up there with Charlotte & Raleigh. And yes, we all know neither city is Atlanta big. We are Portland big. Medium sized metros. No one suggesting otherwise.
I think Austin, Texas would make a great fit for Amazon. Other than that I think top candidates would be the Boston area or suburban DC
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Old 11-26-2017, 07:45 AM
 
Location: Washington DC
3,806 posts, read 3,304,730 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsoboi78 View Post
I think Austin, Texas would make a great fit for Amazon. Other than that I think top candidates would be the Boston area or suburban DC


How could you possibly believe Charlotte & Raleigh have such little Chance of getting Amazon that like Greensboro, it shouldnít be a topic of discussion..... yet You think Austin has a great shot?

Raleigh (which in my fantasy land, Downtown Durham would get it & progress on the light rail torange line would be expedited) I think has good odds for the reason Austin does. Growth, size. Demographics, culture.


I think Charlotte qualifies and meets criteria. But I donít think we have that cultural aspect of Austin, Raleigh, Seattle that Amazon identifies with. I think Raleighís chances would dwindle further if the east coast wasnít preferred.
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Old 11-26-2017, 07:50 AM
 
Location: Greensboro, NC USA
4,580 posts, read 4,401,372 times
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The only reason I mentioned Austin because it is a growing tech area which is larger than Raleigh and they also have the cultural aspect that you mentioned that seems like it would fit Amazon. The metro area has over 2 million people and there is a big highly educated pool or workers. Austin itself has a population pushing 1 million making it larger than Charlotte and a little more than twice the size of Raleigh. I read reports that Texas was high up on the list as a possible location and its possible Amazon may not pick a city on the east coast seaboard like everyone is assuming. Like Toyota, their pick may also be in part political as well. Being in Seattle one may assume Amazon's culture is liberal. Would they pick a conservative state? Even though HB2 was repealed in NC, it left a bad stain on us. Also it would likely take more than the $1 billion Toyota/Mazda is asking for incentives. The state seems to be more focused on Toyota/Mazda at the moment and the question is would the state give Amazon billions of dollars in incentives especially after giving Toyota a billion dollars which seems to be what state law makers are shooting for? Ive read where other states have flat out said they are ready to offer $7 billion in incentives right out the gate. Incentives always seem to be a sticking point in deals such as this. When the playing field is level when it comes to which cities are capable of supporting Amazon's H2 headquarters, incentives will come into play. If Boston/Massachusetts or New Jersey offers $7 billion and North Carolina offers $500 million, which area looks more enticing for Amazon? This is what would kill North Carolina's chances even if our cities fit the criteria for Amazon. In order to overcome such a big incentives gap we would have to be a frontrunner for Amazon from the start. Their desire to locate in North Carolina would have to outweigh any incentives other states would offer.

Last edited by gsoboi78; 11-26-2017 at 08:26 AM..
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Old 11-26-2017, 09:22 AM
 
Location: Washington DC
3,806 posts, read 3,304,730 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsoboi78 View Post
The only reason I mentioned Austin because it is a growing tech area which is larger than Raleigh and they also have the cultural aspect that you mentioned that seems like it would fit Amazon. The metro area has over 2 million people and there is a big highly educated pool or workers. Austin itself has a population pushing 1 million making it larger than Charlotte and a little more than twice the size of Raleigh. I read reports that Texas was high up on the list as a possible location and its possible Amazon may not pick a city on the east coast seaboard like everyone is assuming. Like Toyota, their pick may also be in part political as well. Being in Seattle one may assume Amazon's culture is liberal. Would they pick a conservative state? Even though HB2 was repealed in NC, it left a bad stain on us. Also it would likely take more than the $1 billion Toyota/Mazda is asking for incentives. The state seems to be more focused on Toyota/Mazda at the moment and the question is would the state give Amazon billions of dollars in incentives especially after giving Toyota a billion dollars which seems to be what state law makers are shooting for? Ive read where other states have flat out said they are ready to offer $7 billion in incentives right out the gate. Incentives always seem to be a sticking point in deals such as this. When the playing field is level when it comes to which cities are capable of supporting Amazon's H2 headquarters, incentives will come into play. If Boston/Massachusetts or New Jersey offers $7 billion and North Carolina offers $500 million, which area looks more enticing for Amazon? This is what would kill North Carolina's chances even if our cities fit the criteria for Amazon. In order to overcome such a big incentives gap we would have to be a frontrunner for Amazon from the start. Their desire to locate in North Carolina would have to outweigh any incentives other states would offer.

Does Austin have a larger tech scene, though? & is Austin really bigger than CLT? & is Austin really double the size of RDU?

In millions

Austin Metro - 2.06
Charlotte Metro - 2.74
Raleigh/Durham - 1.88

According to this, Raleigh is 5th largest tech hub in US. Austin 7.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.tec...ubs-in-the-us/

THEre are lots of ways to measure biggest tech hubs, etc. And Raleigh & Austin are usually side By side with 1 bigger in 1 stat, the other bigger in another measure.


City limit populations are a poor representation of how big a city is. Metro numbers are more solid.

You can’t draw conclusions based on city populations with boundaries like this




Outside of incentives. Charlotte & Austin are pretty equal in size, Austin & Raleigh are pretty equal in tech strength and liberal culture. Raleigh is not that much smaller it’s odd are completely dwarfed. So again, not sure why you believe Austin (like I do) has a good shot at Amazon but Raleigh & Charlotte are so out there cray cray.



Some of You guys (2 or so) are discounting Raleigh, & Charlotte (not solely in terms of Amazon) & what they bring to a table. I mean. This is the Triad section so I get it.
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Old 11-26-2017, 09:41 AM
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
943 posts, read 505,165 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsoboi78 View Post
The only reason I mentioned Austin because it is a growing tech area which is larger than Raleigh and they also have the cultural aspect that you mentioned that seems like it would fit Amazon. The metro area has over 2 million people and there is a big highly educated pool or workers. Austin itself has a population pushing 1 million making it larger than Charlotte and a little more than twice the size of Raleigh. I read reports that Texas was high up on the list as a possible location and its possible Amazon may not pick a city on the east coast seaboard like everyone is assuming. Like Toyota, their pick may also be in part political as well. Being in Seattle one may assume Amazon's culture is liberal. Would they pick a conservative state? Even though HB2 was repealed in NC, it left a bad stain on us. Also it would likely take more than the $1 billion Toyota/Mazda is asking for incentives. The state seems to be more focused on Toyota/Mazda at the moment and the question is would the state give Amazon billions of dollars in incentives especially after giving Toyota a billion dollars which seems to be what state law makers are shooting for? Ive read where other states have flat out said they are ready to offer $7 billion in incentives right out the gate. Incentives always seem to be a sticking point in deals such as this. When the playing field is level when it comes to which cities are capable of supporting Amazon's H2 headquarters, incentives will come into play. If Boston/Massachusetts or New Jersey offers $7 billion and North Carolina offers $500 million, which area looks more enticing for Amazon? This is what would kill North Carolina's chances even if our cities fit the criteria for Amazon. In order to overcome such a big incentives gap we would have to be a frontrunner for Amazon from the start. Their desire to locate in North Carolina would have to outweigh any incentives other states would offer.
I pretty much agree with everything you just stated except for the parts about Austin. And not that your wrong because I could easily see Austin winning Amazon, but more so because of the gap that you think exists between Austin and Raleigh. Remember that our Amazon bid was for the Triangle. So you gotta give a fair comparison. Seattleís culture matches up with Austin but also with the Triangle as well. Young highly educated people are choosing here at a rate that keeps pace with a lot of the other ďcool hipsterĒ areas. Itís also a huge transplant spot just like Seattle or Austin. The Triangle is also over 2million and has an even larger pool of educated folks. Texas is a red state just like NC so your comment about that didnít make any sense. Austin also isnít offering in incentives. Likely the state will offer its package though. And incentives very well might be what it comes down to. But clearly there are reasons some of us donít understand why anyone would think the Triangle or Chalotte donít get a fair shake like an Austin or Pittsburgh sized area when they offer most of the same benefits and in some cases more. No I donít think anywhere in NC will win it but we have at least two spots that deserve to be in speculation talks.
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Old 11-26-2017, 09:47 AM
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
943 posts, read 505,165 times
Reputation: 375
Good breakdown by Charlotte485

And like I said, if you are looking the whole Triangle you are actually talking about a population right around 2.2 million with similar land area as Greater Austin so just on population alone there isnít much difference. Like Charlotte, most of Austinís population is just more centrally located.
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Old 11-26-2017, 02:10 PM
 
552 posts, read 310,137 times
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I'm not so sure that with this Amazon HQ2 deal it will come down to incentives. Amazon is not in a position where it must seek a 2nd HQ. They are doing this to help expand their business. It does not seem like they are under pressure to move quickly and can take their time in being decisive.

Having said that, I can see them picking a city that they feel matches up best with their culture and requirements. NJ can offer $7B or $8B if it wants, but if Amazon feels that Boston or Atlanta is the best fit for their company, guess where they will go? Again, Amazon is not in a financial position like some other companies, Boeing for example, needing to relocate it's HQ to address certain economic concerns and found Chicago's incentives package most enticing.

Taking a closer look at the Boeing example, we see that part of the reason why they decided to move their HQ from Seattle was to be closer to legislators and lobbyist in DC, as well as the capital markets on the east coast. If the same holds true for Amazon which is also based in Seattle, this would bode well for cities like Boston in the northeast and DC in the mid Atlantic.

Last edited by uncchgrad; 11-26-2017 at 02:38 PM..
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Old 11-27-2017, 06:30 AM
 
6,800 posts, read 4,438,238 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uncchgrad View Post
I'm not so sure that with this Amazon HQ2 deal it will come down to incentives. Amazon is not in a position where it must seek a 2nd HQ. They are doing this to help expand their business. It does not seem like they are under pressure to move quickly and can take their time in being decisive.

Having said that, I can see them picking a city that they feel matches up best with their culture and requirements. NJ can offer $7B or $8B if it wants, but if Amazon feels that Boston or Atlanta is the best fit for their company, guess where they will go? Again, Amazon is not in a financial position like some other companies, Boeing for example, needing to relocate it's HQ to address certain economic concerns and found Chicago's incentives package most enticing.
You're partially correct with all this. Amazon will pick the city that is the best strategic fit, but they will also negotiate a huge incentive package. And if City A won't cough up enough incentives, they may well move on to City B. There is rarely only one acceptable location; thats one reason incentives have become such a big issue.

In regard to Boeing, you're off base, see below.

Quote:
Originally Posted by uncchgrad View Post
Taking a closer look at the Boeing example, we see that part of the reason why they decided to move their HQ from Seattle was to be closer to legislators and lobbyist in DC, as well as the capital markets on the east coast. If the same holds true for Amazon which is also based in Seattle, this would bode well for cities like Boston in the northeast and DC in the mid Atlantic.
Really? I guess someone forgot to tell the CEO...

"Why did Boeing decide to move?

About a year ago, Phil Condit, our chairman and CEO, started conversations with his strategy council and other executive leaders about Boeing’s long-term strategic growth plans. In the course of those conversations, it became apparent that our headquarters needed to be in a neutral location, one not directly associated with one of the major units of the company.

Since Boeing was founded in Seattle, and our commercial airplane unit is headquartered there, many people think of Boeing as only a Seattle commercial airplane company. But in fact, we’re a much larger entity. The company includes McDonnell jet fighters, Douglas commercial aircraft, Hughes helicopters, Hughes Space, North American Aerospace, and many others. So part of our strategic plans called for a headquarters separate from existing businesses and focused on developing global growth opportunities."

https://hbr.org/2001/10/inside-boeings-big-move

Companies can access capital markets and lobby legislators from the west coast without any problem. if that weren't the case, Amazon would be moving its entire headquarters, as would every other large company west of the Mississippi. If anything, today's technology makes it easier to do business from a distance.
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Old 11-27-2017, 06:33 AM
 
29,934 posts, read 27,365,450 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsoboi78 View Post
Why do I bring up other people? Its because Im tired of other people posting rediculous crap more far out than anything I would say and nobody says anything but some how its been said Im the one who has posted outrageous things.
The issue is that you're bringing up what people have said on some other forum. I have no clue what this other forum is; it it were this particular forum, your point would be relevant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gsoboi78 View Post
I certainly agree about Greenville. The BMW plant has really helped put that area on the radar and while it doesnt have the biggest skyline in the Carolinas, it has the nicest downtown.
Charleston retains the honor of having the nicest downtown in the Carolinas to me, but downtown Greenville has certainly made a ton of progress in a short period of time.
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Old 11-27-2017, 09:29 AM
 
239 posts, read 213,288 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trent Y View Post
I'm just wondering. Do you spell Raleigh wrong on purpose?
No my auto correct spells it and I don't care about Raleigh enough to correct it lol.
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