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We're not going to see a skyline in Greensboro or Winston-Salem that comes anywhere near resembling Charlotte in my lifetime (I'm in my early-30s). At best, I could see Greensboro or Winston-Salem approaching that of Richmond (as it is now) but even that would be a major stretch and decades down the road. And definitely not both.
We're not going to see a skyline in Greensboro or Winston-Salem that comes anywhere near resembling Charlotte in my lifetime (I'm in my early-30s). At best, I could see Greensboro or Winston-Salem approaching that of Richmond (as it is now) but even that would be a major stretch and decades down the road. And definitely not both.
I would say the same thing for Raleigh and Durham. While Raleigh's skyline is growing at a faster rate than Greensboro, Durham and Winston-Salem, its nowhere close to Charlotte's skyline. With exception to Winston-Salem, the other four cities Charlotte, Raleigh, Greensboro and Durham either have highrises under construction or will be under construction in the near future. Charlotte will continue to have the state's best skyline for many decades to come. Charlotte's skyline seems to always have a tower crane and there is room uptown to expand its skyline three times the size that it is today.
I think NOT having a skyline like Charlotte or Raleigh will pay dividends for cities like Greensboro and Winston Salem as tearing down character buildings to throw up steel/glass highrises removes the soul of a city. The feeling of character is what is going to carry Greensoboro-Winston Salem in the years to come for those who appreciate that value over congested, vertical living. Durham is a textbook example of what can be done without a massive high rise core, and W-S especially seems more on that trajectory at this point.
Didn't Louisville do the same thing, merge with the county? Because of that its population is over 600,000 I think. Also some people find it shocking that Virginia Beach has over 500, 000 people yet it lacks the feel of a city of half a million people. Its bigger than Richmond yet Richmond has a more urban dense downtown. Heck Greensboro is bigger than Richmond and its downtown is bigger and more dense than Greensboro's
I never think about the fake downtown Va Beach built for its "downtown". Norfolk built a light rail a few years ago but the Va Beach folks didnt want a train into their City because they felt it would just bring a lot of poor people into their town.
About Greensboro and Richmond, VA cities are independent from their counties so population numbers dont reflect the actual
size of the urban area. I am always impressed with the infrastructure of old Richmond. When I visit there I can envision Broad
Street with streetcars and the renovation of the train station downtown. They have kept the old row houses and not much was demolished like in most southern cities. Richmond has a charm unlike most southern suburban cities. Richmond was built originally to become a great City. The only problem was the locals preferred the sprawling suburbs and they abandoned the
downtown. I understand Richmond downtown is making a comeback.
I never think about the fake downtown Va Beach built for its "downtown". Norfolk built a light rail a few years ago but the Va Beach folks didnt want a train into their City because they felt it would just bring a lot of poor people into their town.
About Greensboro and Richmond, VA cities are independent from their counties so population numbers dont reflect the actual
size of the urban area. I am always impressed with the infrastructure of old Richmond. When I visit there I can envision Broad
Street with streetcars and the renovation of the train station downtown. They have kept the old row houses and not much was demolished like in most southern cities. Richmond has a charm unlike most southern suburban cities. Richmond was built originally to become a great City. The only problem was the locals preferred the sprawling suburbs and they abandoned the
downtown. I understand Richmond downtown is making a comeback.
One other big thing about Virginia Beach is that the size of the actual city is HUGE. It has 450,000 people but those 450,000 people are spread out over about 250 sq miles of land (for comparison, NYC is about 300). Now, a little less than half of that land is below a "green line" they set where they have almost exclusively rural living. But you still have about 400,000 people spread out among about 150 sq miles. That's not particularly dense. As for Richmond, downtown is indeed making a comeback. They are getting ready to start a BRT (Bus Rapit Transit) system which should help some more. I think something like BRT could work in Winston-Salem as well, but I think we're at least a decade away for that to be practical.
City population is always one of the worst metrics in actually comparing a cities size in relation to others. Greensboro"city" population is larger than Richmond but thats because the land area of Greensboro's city limits is like twice the size of Richmond. Its usually better to compare Urban Area numbers if available or even MSA's to get a better picture of a cities actual size and influence. Anyone that has been to Richmond would no doubt feel like the city is bigger then Gboro. Which makes sense since the Urban Area population and metro is quite a bit larger.
However, looking at Virginia Beach area and trying to figure out populations is kind of a mess since all of the cities in that area have such odd populations and land boundaries. Not to mention they count basically everything as one metro. 1.7million people within Newport News-VA Beach-Norfolk-Chesapeake-Williamsburg. Its hard to compare that region against anywhere else.
City population is always one of the worst metrics in actually comparing a cities size in relation to others. Greensboro"city" population is larger than Richmond but thats because the land area of Greensboro's city limits is like twice the size of Richmond. Its usually better to compare Urban Area numbers if available or even MSA's to get a better picture of a cities actual size and influence. Anyone that has been to Richmond would no doubt feel like the city is bigger then Gboro. Which makes sense since the Urban Area population and metro is quite a bit larger.
However, looking at Virginia Beach area and trying to figure out populations is kind of a mess since all of the cities in that area have such odd populations and land boundaries. Not to mention they count basically everything as one metro. 1.7million people within Newport News-VA Beach-Norfolk-Chesapeake-Williamsburg. Its hard to compare that region against anywhere else.
Exactly. Population doesn't really tell you much unless you dig deeper. Jacksonville is Florida's biggest city, more than double the next biggest city (Miami). Virginia Beach is larger than Atlanta per population.
Like you say Trent, MSAs are better but Hampton Roads is a perfect example of why even MSAs aren't perfect. Williamsburg, Gloucester, Virginia Beach, and two NC counties should not be all part of the same comparison area. Yet, it technically fits the definition of one MSA (but we had this dicussion in another thread).
I think NOT having a skyline like Charlotte or Raleigh will pay dividends for cities like Greensboro and Winston Salem as tearing down character buildings to throw up steel/glass highrises removes the soul of a city. The feeling of character is what is going to carry Greensoboro-Winston Salem in the years to come for those who appreciate that value over congested, vertical living. Durham is a textbook example of what can be done without a massive high rise core, and W-S especially seems more on that trajectory at this point.
...but isn'the greensboro guilty of doing this right now? Have you seen how much they've had to tare down for the new developments?
One other big thing about Virginia Beach is that the size of the actual city is HUGE. It has 450,000 people but those 450,000 people are spread out over about 250 sq miles of land (for comparison, NYC is about 300). Now, a little less than half of that land is below a "green line" they set where they have almost exclusively rural living. But you still have about 400,000 people spread out among about 150 sq miles. That's not particularly dense. As for Richmond, downtown is indeed making a comeback. They are getting ready to start a BRT (Bus Rapit Transit) system which should help some more. I think something like BRT could work in Winston-Salem as well, but I think we're at least a decade away for that to be practical.
Same is true for Birmingham AL. Driving through that city at night and seeing the skyline would make you think and feel that you're in a much larger city than its population reflects. Definitely looks more urban than Greensboro.
A city's image is often judged by its skyline with exception to Durham which has the smallest skyline of the big 5. Charlotte has a tower going up every year. Raleigh is seeing a nice pick up in downtown highrise development. Durham and Greensboro are starting to see downtown highrise construction for the first time since the late 80s. Two highrise projects are under construction right now in Durham near the ballpark, 10 - story 555 Magnum office tower with an adjacent 12 - story residential building. Then there is the 27 - story One City Center tower that recently topped out in Durham. In Greensboro construction will soon start on a 9 - story office tower overlooking the ballpark, a 14 to 17 - story Westin hotel and a 28 - story mixed use tower with an Aloft hotel across the street from the Grasshopper stadium and the ballpark tower. So four out of five of North Carolina's biggest cities are either currently building towers or very close to the start of construction.
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