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LOL you southerns are nuts.....glad it hasn't caught on up here , its been laughed at...and some people have lost there jobs for bringing it up...
Uh.........most of us "southerners" are transplants from the North that were fed up with Nanny State politicians. Michael Bloomberg is flat out telling you that he is smarter than you are and knows how much soda you should be able to drink. And what's your response? "Thank you sir, may I have another"?
In all seriousness, what do you think the motive is for stripping our liberties, taking our homes, and turning the nation into a Stalinist, communist nation of internationally controlled lemmings? (It's so scary when you include those words.) Is someone being paid off to destroy your way of life? Or is it negligence and ignorance of city government, as suggested by the speaker? What's in it for the local government, other to create a cleaner community with less needless suburban sprawl with more foot traffic and extra transportation options? Is there a World Government representative sitting at City Hall that I don't know about?
More importantly, what are the real alternatives to reversing the decay of our urban centers and slowing the growth of urban sprawl (the sacred strip malls and cul de sacs)? We have plenty of homes for sale now, plenty of empty store fronts. Why does the Tea Party representative in the Pickens County video say the words like "sustainability", "bicycle paths", and "communal parks" with such obvious contempt and sarcasm? I have no problem with the creation of more parks, "communal" facilities (like socialist libraries, oh my!), and mixed use developments.
I realize that many opponents do want to see positive steps towards protecting the environment. BUT it's like hearing someone rail against "lazy" welfare recipients, or "thieving" immigrants, then in the same breath, say "I want to help those people in need, just not because the government wants me to." I feel like those views are contradictory.
Nothing is 100% cut and dry, good or bad, and I think there are good elements and bad elements of a 20 year old plan, such as Agenda 21. I read the document with an open mind, and it's not that crazy.
How is it contradictory? I believe we should all help the less fortunate through charity and volunteerism, not through the government taking more money and wasting it on programs that never help people.
How is it contradictory? I believe we should all help the less fortunate through charity and volunteerism, not through the government taking more money and wasting it on programs that never help people.
EXACTLY - very well-stated! Some like to point out that the Bible says we are our brothers' keeper(s)... We SHOULD help others in whatever ways our lives/abilities/means allow us to... As individuals (or collectively through organizations created expressly for that purpose). There is NOTHING in scripture that says governments should take from one group of people in order to give to another.
EXACTLY - very well-stated! Some like to point out that the Bible says we are our brothers' keeper(s)... We SHOULD help others in whatever ways our lives/abilities/means allow us to... As individuals (or collectively through organizations created expressly for that purpose). There is NOTHING in scripture that says governments should take from one group of people in order to give to another.
100% correct. When I was growing up we had a word for that.................stealing.
How is it contradictory? I believe we should all help the less fortunate through charity and volunteerism, not through the government taking more money and wasting it on programs that never help people.
I agree with you. BUT, if someone complains about the "lazy" poor, the welfare recipients, the ones who don't have earn enough money to pay taxes...he or she is stating, in a way, that those people are responsible for their own situation and don't deserve the help. That's how the person truly feels. That same person can't turn around and insist that they care about them and want to help them, just not through their taxes. I'm not saying you are one of those people. It's okay by me to disagree with government welfare and agree with helping the poor, that's not what I'm disputing. It does indicate some disconnection between the conservative parties and the spirit of helping the less fortunate.
EDIT: I was browsing the new threads and immediately saw one called "For those tired of Welfare Cheats and Lazy Do for nothings". That is the general attitude that I was talking about.
EXACTLY - very well-stated! Some like to point out that the Bible says we are our brothers' keeper(s)... We SHOULD help others in whatever ways our lives/abilities/means allow us to... As individuals (or collectively through organizations created expressly for that purpose). There is NOTHING in scripture that says governments should take from one group of people in order to give to another.
The problem is that Sophiasmommy didn't bold (or maybe catch) the first half of my statement. It had to do with the notion that one could concurrently loathe and love the poor. They either deserve our help or they don't. Whether or not the aid is coming from tax dollars or charitable donations. I count myself as one of the lucky ones who contributes to both.
Same goes for Agenda 21. If one does care about the planet and our impact on it, he/she would not brush off all of the ideas contained within, only because it's an initiative put forward by local government. The American dream to me isn't just the notion that I could buy a new McMansion every 10 years, or have dinner at a new Subway at a new strip mall, (in a spot where a forest used to be). To me, it's having a clean, safe place to live in. It's having a job where I don't have to commute for an hour (or even drive!). It's having clean air to breathe, clean water left to use. It's having a park to visit, a forest to walk through. If that means our government needs to push that initiative forward, by all means, let them. We, as consumers, won't make that happen and the businesses that make their profit off of those resources won't. Always bigger, newer, & better isn't going to last us very long, someone needs to be thinking about it.
The problem is that Sophiasmommy didn't bold (or maybe catch) the first half of my statement. It had to do with the notion that one could concurrently loathe and love the poor. They either deserve our help or they don't. Whether or not the aid is coming from tax dollars or charitable donations. I count myself as one of the lucky ones who contributes to both.
Same goes for Agenda 21. If one does care about the planet and our impact on it, he/she would not brush off all of the ideas contained within, only because it's an initiative put forward by local government. The American dream to me isn't just the notion that I could buy a new McMansion every 10 years, or have dinner at a new Subway at a new strip mall, (in a spot where a forest used to be). To me, it's having a clean, safe place to live in. It's having a job where I don't have to commute for an hour (or even drive!). It's having clean air to breathe, clean water left to use. It's having a park to visit, a forest to walk through. If that means our government needs to push that initiative forward, by all means, let them. We, as consumers, won't make that happen and the businesses that make their profit off of those resources won't. Always bigger, newer, & better isn't going to last us very long, someone needs to be thinking about it.
I COMPLETELY believe in adaptive re-use. I just don't believe in government fiddling with the free markets. Educated consumers (and developers by extension, following the market) will do the right thing. The main job here by governments & organizations in issues like this is the education part - make people aware of alternatives & how they can improve their lives. Don't do things like punitive taxation, overbearing regulation and other negative reinforcement.
I COMPLETELY believe in adaptive re-use. I just don't believe in government fiddling with the free markets. Educated consumers (and developers by extension, following the market) will do the right thing. The main job here by governments & organizations in issues like this is the education part - make people aware of alternatives & how they can improve their lives. Don't do things like punitive taxation, overbearing regulation and other negative reinforcement.
There was a quote from a movie recently (I forget which movie) and it went something like this: "Many people are willing to surrender some of their freedoms for supposed security". In other words, we do s lot of things based on fear, but the government is not the solution, they are part of the problem.
I COMPLETELY believe in adaptive re-use. I just don't believe in government fiddling with the free markets. Educated consumers (and developers by extension, following the market) will do the right thing. The main job here by governments & organizations in issues like this is the education part - make people aware of alternatives & how they can improve their lives. Don't do things like punitive taxation, overbearing regulation and other negative reinforcement.
I see where you're coming from. I'm mainly referring to the mood in the Tea Party video. The speaker kept putting air quotes and wrapping sarcasm around things that were typically positive ...bike trails, clean air, parks, etc. After disparaging all of the potential sustainable benefits of the concepts, she goes on to say that she does care about the environment...
The issue is similar as with junk food. Why would people choose a healthier lifestyle, when they can choose an easier one, with cheaper, tastier food? (And on that note, isn't teaching about a healthy lifestyle Michelle Obama's mission....who is frequently ridiculed...just like those who teach about conservation?). So, let's say we just teach everyone about a more sustainable lifestyle... The woman in that video wouldn't have that either, she referred to it as "indoctrination" of our children. *sigh* If we leave the suburban planning and environmental health to the market, things will not turn out well. We need those guidelines and rules, IMHO. Additionally, I would expect more resistance to sprawl and conservation of our natural environment living in such a beautiful part of the country.
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It had to do with the notion that one could concurrently loathe and love the poor. They either deserve our help or they don't. Whether or not the aid is coming from tax dollars or charitable donations. I count myself as one of the lucky ones who contributes to both. 
