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Regardless of the next administration, projects funded like the one in Seneca should go away. It makes no sense to pay so much for a bus when the city, which is only a couple of blocks, could get by with a regular diesel bus at a fraction of the cost. There are many worthy transit projects in the country such as expanding Altanta's system, the next phase of Charlotte's blue line and others which have matching local grants. These projects should take priority over one in Seneca. How many buses has Seneca ordered? Is Seneca Proterra's largest customer? Does DeMint have anything to do with Seneca getting high priced transportation?
I would politely suggest that the growing hometown Greenlink system should be using these buses, but at the end of the day, as great as Proterra sounded for this area, these things must be made to be cost-effective and competitively-priced so that the market alone determines its success or demise.
I would politely suggest that the growing hometown Greenlink system should be using these buses, but at the end of the day, as great as Proterra sounded for this area, these things must be made to be cost-effective and competitively-priced so that the market alone determines its success or demise.
I've been wondering why Greenville hasn't announced any orders for these buses.
The city felt the cost per Proterra bus wasn't worth it.
It's not that is isn't worth it; the payback for all electric public transit vehicles is well known, unlike passenger cars. But the initial purchase price was too high to afford.
It's not that is isn't worth it; the payback for all electric public transit vehicles is well known, unlike passenger cars. But the initial purchase price was too high to afford.
What is the payback for a $1m bus?
I agree with others who have said that Greenville should be getting transit dollars over cities like Seneca. I would bet that Seneca is getting these buses due to politics, otherwise, as many have stated, this is a waste of money. In SC, Greenville, Columbia & Charleston could use $1.5m to buy a number of buses instead of the high priced Proterra models.
How many orders does Proterra have? When small orders quit becoming news for this company, they may have a chance at survival. There is a company here is Charlotte called Designline which faces the same hurdles but seems to be more global than Proterra.
Operating costs per mile, including maintenance: Diesel $1.05 , Proterra $0.18
Applying these numbers to Greenlink's routes, you get an average savings of $789,000 over the vehicle life and a 9.79 year payback period. A new diesel vehicle is $355K. Assuming you pay for the $645K difference with a 3%, 10 year muni bond, that's an extra 102K in interest costs over the 10 years which is an overall savings of $42.5K savings over the life of the vehicle. And that's before you factor in any possible increase in ridership because of a quieter experience.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GSP101
I agree with others who have said that Greenville should be getting transit dollars over cities like Seneca. I would bet that Seneca is getting these buses due to politics, otherwise, as many have stated, this is a waste of money.
Now that Greenville and Pickens transit area funding has merged, things may change.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GSP101
In SC, Greenville, Columbia & Charleston could use $1.5m to buy a number of buses instead of the high priced Proterra models.
Penny wise, pound foolish. But if it's out of the price range, the only way is to go with what can be afforded.
But the exact numbers are still being collected in the cities where the vehicles are deployed, and may vary from the back of the napkin calculations here. Proterra's success will certainly depend on being able to continue to reduce the new vehicle price and be affordable to more cities.
Operating costs per mile, including maintenance: Diesel $1.05 , Proterra $0.18
Applying these numbers to Greenlink's routes, you get an average savings of $789,000 over the vehicle life and a 9.79 year payback period. A new diesel vehicle is $355K. Assuming you pay for the $645K difference with a 3%, 10 year muni bond, that's an extra 102K in interest costs over the 10 years which is an overall savings of $42.5K savings over the life of the vehicle. And that's before you factor in any possible increase in ridership because of a quieter experience.
Now that Greenville and Pickens transit area funding has merged, things may change.
Penny wise, pound foolish. But if it's out of the price range, the only way is to go with what can be afforded.
But the exact numbers are still being collected in the cities where the vehicles are deployed, and may vary from the back of the napkin calculations here. Proterra's success will certainly depend on being able to continue to reduce the new vehicle price and be affordable to more cities.
Thanks for putting math to the payback, you don't see that too often on this board. How likely is it that the cost of these buses will come down over the next few years? HOw does the cost of a hybrid bus compare?
Thanks for putting math to the payback, you don't see that too often on this board. How likely is it that the cost of these buses will come down over the next few years?
It is very likely because Proterra knows that price is a big obstacle. According to a report earlier this year, they are applying mass production techniques to the existing design where it can be done, as well as outsourcing sub assemblies where it saves money. It's not clear how much room they have to cut unit costs. It may take some clever engineering as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GSP101
HOw does the cost of a hybrid bus compare?
Using numbers of operating costs per mile, including maintenance: Diesel $1.05 , Hybrid $0.90, new vehicle cost of $580K I get an average savings of only $136K over the vehicle life. That is a net loss compared to the $225K added vehicle cost.
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