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Old 01-23-2014, 07:15 AM
 
410 posts, read 601,603 times
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Perhaps the OP meant that there are few liberal talk shows on AM? I would hazard a guess and say that most of the political talk shows are conservative in nature. However, we are in the Bible belt for a reason. While we do not ostracize non-believers or non-church goers as some would like to believe, being liberal is definitely in the minority around here. If that sort of thing bothers you, you would be best served by moving elsewhere.

I understand that the OP had a so-so experience. I think it would be hard to catch the flavor of a place in a few days. There are plenty of places I have been, made a split second judgment, and decided that I never wanted to go back. Louisville, KY is one of those places, though from what I hear, I was horribly wrong about my impressions.

I don't think anyone wants to bash the other or have to go on the defensive. I think the other posters that replied just wanted to correct his assumptions so as to not mislead others who may be thinking of moving and read this thread. Greenville is not for everyone, and that is OK. I hate Columbia personally, but there are plenty that love it and will defend it with their dying breath.

To the OP: I think perhaps you should have waited to post your original impressions until you had time to visit again. There are a lot of people on this board who will call you out for not spending more time to develop your impressions. I know you meant to help, but that is the nature of these boards, unfortunately. I hope you decide to visit again soon.
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Old 01-23-2014, 07:36 AM
 
Location: Greenville, SC
5,060 posts, read 7,010,318 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldhousejunkie View Post
Perhaps the OP meant that there are few liberal talk shows on AM? I would hazard a guess and say that most of the political talk shows are conservative in nature. However, we are in the Bible belt for a reason. While we do not ostracize non-believers or non-church goers as some would like to believe, being liberal is definitely in the minority around here. If that sort of thing bothers you, you would be best served by moving elsewhere.

I understand that the OP had a so-so experience. I think it would be hard to catch the flavor of a place in a few days. There are plenty of places I have been, made a split second judgment, and decided that I never wanted to go back. Louisville, KY is one of those places, though from what I hear, I was horribly wrong about my impressions.

I don't think anyone wants to bash the other or have to go on the defensive. I think the other posters that replied just wanted to correct his assumptions so as to not mislead others who may be thinking of moving and read this thread. Greenville is not for everyone, and that is OK. I hate Columbia personally, but there are plenty that love it and will defend it with their dying breath.

To the OP: I think perhaps you should have waited to post your original impressions until you had time to visit again. There are a lot of people on this board who will call you out for not spending more time to develop your impressions. I know you meant to help, but that is the nature of these boards, unfortunately. I hope you decide to visit again soon.
Correct their impression? What? how do you correct someone's opinion?

To not mislead others? Most of this forum is a misrepresentation of Greenville, in my opinion.

For what it's worth, the OP's first impressions were very similar to my first impressions, and similar to my current impressions over 5 years later.

There is a lot of Christian radio here, compared to most any other place. The lower end of the FM dial is mainly Christian radio.

There is a lot of poverty here.

The area is not very appealing, visually. Lots of junky and often abandoned buildings, too many power lines, too many signs, too many billboards, litter, tons and tons of older red brick homes in disrepair, etc…

I actually alter the way I get around the area to avoid all the ugly parts, which is no easy task.

I've spent over 5 years straight here, and could only disagree with one of the OP's impressions - the panhandling.

Your post is just another example of how defensive people here get. There's no need to "correct" other people's opinions. Not only did the OP mean to help, and this may be hard for some to imagine, but their post IS helpful.
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Old 01-23-2014, 08:08 AM
 
Location: Naperville, Illinois
2,985 posts, read 2,510,093 times
Reputation: 4981
I won't apologize for posting my first impressions. Sometimes I've found hearing someone's first impressions of a place more valuable than the statements of the jaded veteran who is so into a place that he can't see past the prejudices he's built up over the years. That's why my post was titled "first impressions" rather than "this is the real Greenville". I made it clear several times in this thread that my opinions are provisional ... If anyone doesn't understand what that means, look it up in one of the fine online dictionaries out there (they'll explain what metaphor means for folks like dc2sc, too). I don't know what I could have done to make the intent of my post clearer. And like Art123, I believe anyone considering the area will find my impressions helpful. Note, too, that I stated there were no showstoppers and Greenville was still at or near the top of my shortlist (how I'll feel after this thread is another matter). Pretty positive, no?

To clarify the comment about liberal talk shows, I'm a libertarian-leaning conservative so that's not it. However, I don't equate "conservative" with "Prot evangelical/fundamentalist" ... I'm Eastern Orthodox (which contrary to many fundamentalists beliefs, *is* Christian) so I have zero interest in listening to conservative talk radio with an evangelical slant or big government conservatives who want fiscal freedom, but want to control folks' moral choices.

That people want to "call me out" until I've spent X hours in Greenville is a reflection on them, not on me. What I come for in these forums is a variety of opinions, and I get a feeling that there are Greenvillians who would like to micromanage the town's image by "refuting" anything negative. I see this in other forums I visit, but it seems especially strong here. Whether that shows some strong strain of Babbit-style boosterism running through your town's culture or is just a few boosters posting on these forums remains to be seen.

There I go, the Outsider spewing my vicious impressions again. I just can't stop myself!

Last edited by Vasily; 01-23-2014 at 08:17 AM..
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Old 01-23-2014, 10:18 AM
 
1,941 posts, read 3,650,060 times
Reputation: 960
These threads are a no win, for the person who starts the thread as well as anyone who responds. I'm to the point of not wanting to read them, because they never seem to end well. It's very confusing.

For the person who has visited and posted his or her thoughts, what do you want others to say? This is not a criticism of you, Vasily, but a general question for anyone who has started a thread like this. Nobody is saying that your opinion isn't valid if you don't love everything about the city. Are you simply wanting to be told that you are exactly correct about the city despite spending limited time there? Do you want to be thanked for visiting Greenville?

I'm honestly confused, because these threads seem like an attempt to get additional information and see if your impressions are correct. People saying that they disagree with your impression, or who try to clarify what you meant, aren't necessarily being defensive. I understand that it could be taken that way, but I don't think most people mean it that way. I read most responses as people giving their own opinions in return, which should be just as valid as the original poster's opinion.

With that said, I do think some people get defensive when they perceive someone criticizing their city. This is not unique to Greenville. It happens on the other city forums too, and just as frequently. It should be okay for someone not to like it, because their opinion is just one opinion. Just like everyone else's.

My opinion as someone who grew up in Greenville, who did not fully appreciate it until I moved away and lived some other places, is that Greenville is a nice mid-sized city. I feel that it has a lot of advantages, such as a great downtown, friendly people, a good dining scene, low cost of living, close proximity to mountains and lakes, and good arts/cultural offerings. It also has some things I don't think are great, like some not so well-maintained areas, a lower per capita income than peer cities, and lower educational attainment compared to some other cities. I suppose it's a trade-off, as no area is perfect and all cities have their own respective strengths/weaknesses. Anyone who is almost exclusively positive or negative about a given city is biased one way or the other.
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Old 01-23-2014, 11:40 AM
 
Location: Somewhere.
1,872 posts, read 3,089,240 times
Reputation: 1793
+1 to art123. You said it better then I did. I admit to "feeding the troll" but didnt realize it and didnt put it in words very well. You said it way better. I just find it extremely obnoxious that someone gets attacked for how they feel.

As for the panhandling, I've had good and bad days and can see how th OP might have encountered such. Some days I don't even see anyone, others there are several. I will say that the downtown is the only thing greenville has for it over other places I've been to. It's nice to have such a pretty park righ through the middle.
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Old 01-23-2014, 12:05 PM
 
Location: Naperville, Illinois
2,985 posts, read 2,510,093 times
Reputation: 4981
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenville View Post
These threads are a no win, for the person who starts the thread as well as anyone who responds. I'm to the point of not wanting to read them, because they never seem to end well. It's very confusing.

For the person who has visited and posted his or her thoughts, what do you want others to say? This is not a criticism of you, Vasily, but a general question for anyone who has started a thread like this. Nobody is saying that your opinion isn't valid if you don't love everything about the city. Are you simply wanting to be told that you are exactly correct about the city despite spending limited time there? Do you want to be thanked for visiting Greenville?

I'm honestly confused, because these threads seem like an attempt to get additional information and see if your impressions are correct. People saying that they disagree with your impression, or who try to clarify what you meant, aren't necessarily being defensive. I understand that it could be taken that way, but I don't think most people mean it that way. I read most responses as people giving their own opinions in return, which should be just as valid as the original poster's opinion.

With that said, I do think some people get defensive when they perceive someone criticizing their city. This is not unique to Greenville. It happens on the other city forums too, and just as frequently. It should be okay for someone not to like it, because their opinion is just one opinion. Just like everyone else's.

My opinion as someone who grew up in Greenville, who did not fully appreciate it until I moved away and lived some other places, is that Greenville is a nice mid-sized city. I feel that it has a lot of advantages, such as a great downtown, friendly people, a good dining scene, low cost of living, close proximity to mountains and lakes, and good arts/cultural offerings. It also has some things I don't think are great, like some not so well-maintained areas, a lower per capita income than peer cities, and lower educational attainment compared to some other cities. I suppose it's a trade-off, as no area is perfect and all cities have their own respective strengths/weaknesses. Anyone who is almost exclusively positive or negative about a given city is biased one way or the other.
What did I want? Reasonable and inviting responses, which I got from some people, not challenges like those from DC2SC (you're wrong or misrepresenting). Responses that felt like someone being helpful to a first time visitor rather than someone doing damage control. Thanks to beckycat, Art123, Pat Grissinger, flgargoyle, saucystargazer, and you for your your last paragraph which was helpful.

Saying "I doubt anyone talked up Travelers Rest" or accusing me of saying people are putting on airs then saying "that guy" is full of it when he explains his comments isn't presenting an alternate view, it's being argumentative and insulting. How one says something is often as important as what one is saying.
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Old 01-23-2014, 02:47 PM
 
410 posts, read 601,603 times
Reputation: 295
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenville View Post
These threads are a no win, for the person who starts the thread as well as anyone who responds. I'm to the point of not wanting to read them, because they never seem to end well. It's very confusing.

For the person who has visited and posted his or her thoughts, what do you want others to say? This is not a criticism of you, Vasily, but a general question for anyone who has started a thread like this. Nobody is saying that your opinion isn't valid if you don't love everything about the city. Are you simply wanting to be told that you are exactly correct about the city despite spending limited time there? Do you want to be thanked for visiting Greenville?

I'm honestly confused, because these threads seem like an attempt to get additional information and see if your impressions are correct. People saying that they disagree with your impression, or who try to clarify what you meant, aren't necessarily being defensive. I understand that it could be taken that way, but I don't think most people mean it that way. I read most responses as people giving their own opinions in return, which should be just as valid as the original poster's opinion.

With that said, I do think some people get defensive when they perceive someone criticizing their city. This is not unique to Greenville. It happens on the other city forums too, and just as frequently. It should be okay for someone not to like it, because their opinion is just one opinion. Just like everyone else's.

My opinion as someone who grew up in Greenville, who did not fully appreciate it until I moved away and lived some other places, is that Greenville is a nice mid-sized city. I feel that it has a lot of advantages, such as a great downtown, friendly people, a good dining scene, low cost of living, close proximity to mountains and lakes, and good arts/cultural offerings. It also has some things I don't think are great, like some not so well-maintained areas, a lower per capita income than peer cities, and lower educational attainment compared to some other cities. I suppose it's a trade-off, as no area is perfect and all cities have their own respective strengths/weaknesses. Anyone who is almost exclusively positive or negative about a given city is biased one way or the other.
Perfectly said Greenville. I grew up in Spartanburg and Greenville always looked like the promised land to us over there. Better shopping, more glamour. Since then I've lived in Charleston, Atlanta, and Columbia. Each has its positives and negatives (OK, I could only find negatives in Columbia), as does Greenville.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ART123 View Post
Correct their impression? What? how do you correct someone's opinion?

To not mislead others? Most of this forum is a misrepresentation of Greenville, in my opinion.

For what it's worth, the OP's first impressions were very similar to my first impressions, and similar to my current impressions over 5 years later.

There is a lot of Christian radio here, compared to most any other place. The lower end of the FM dial is mainly Christian radio.

There is a lot of poverty here.

The area is not very appealing, visually. Lots of junky and often abandoned buildings, too many power lines, too many signs, too many billboards, litter, tons and tons of older red brick homes in disrepair, etc…

I actually alter the way I get around the area to avoid all the ugly parts, which is no easy task.

I've spent over 5 years straight here, and could only disagree with one of the OP's impressions - the panhandling.

Your post is just another example of how defensive people here get. There's no need to "correct" other people's opinions. Not only did the OP mean to help, and this may be hard for some to imagine, but their post IS helpful..
Wow, you must be bored today Art. Attacking someone who was rather kindly trying to explain to the OP why some of the responses were negative. And yes my dear, you can correct someone's impression (though I used the word 'assumption'). The OP made a blanket statement about all the radio stations being religious. I explained to him that he is in the Bible Belt and that there a lot of Conservative shows on the AM dial. That is a fact. You corrected his statement about the panhandlers by telling him that it was really odd for that sort of thing to happen.

You come off in this post just how I imagine you in real life...and I don't have to name call for everyone to know what that is. You enumerate all the things that are wrong with Greenville; heck most of the things you listed are problems in a lot of towns. It sounds to me that you want to move Beverly Hills where your precious eyes won't be exposed to the realities of life. Yes there is a poverty problem here. There is a poverty problem in most places. Every place in the US has "the wrong side of the tracks". But most of the unkempt brick houses are either rentals, or in some cases, seniors on a fixed income who have lived there all their lives and don't have the funds to keep up the place. As for the rentals, yeah, Greenville codes could and should pull the rug out from under the slum lords but griping about it on here, and not approaching your city council member is a waste of time.

Both you and SaucyStarGazer both hate Greenville so much, what is even the point of contributing to the board? Why even stay here? Jobs? Well as someone said in an earlier post, you shouldn't shackle yourself to a place because of a job. I for one despised Columbia. Did I stay there and rant on the City Data forums about it? Nope. I moved. TO GREENVILLE. And without the help of this board and all its so-called boosters. I was familiar with the place and it fit my specs at the time. It still does for the most part. Sadly in my case, the only spec it does not fit is my choice of occupation, so I'm doing something else. I could get angry and rail at the city because of this, but I don't. I try to enjoy my free time and get on with life.

To the OP, there is absolutely nothing wrong with your impressions. They are your opinions. Yes, you sounded a bit uppity with your comment about the town "putting on airs", but I for one was only trying to explain why the responses you received were negative.
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Old 01-23-2014, 02:53 PM
 
Location: Somewhere.
1,872 posts, read 3,089,240 times
Reputation: 1793
Moderator cut: orphaned

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldhousejunkie View Post
Both you and SaucyStarGazer both hate Greenville so much, what is even the point of contributing to the board? Why even stay here? Jobs? Well as someone said in an earlier post, you shouldn't shackle yourself to a place because of a job. I for one despised Columbia. Did I stay there and rant on the City Data forums about it? Nope. I moved. TO GREENVILLE.
Ugh. I'm so sick of you people who latch on to me because I'm not OMG IN LOVE with this place. Again I say one thing about this place and get attacked left and right. Go read other posts I've made. I've suggested greenville to some people when I thought it would be a good fit. Greenville isn't for me. I've made that clear and I'm sorry I'm not willing to sugar coat it. If it weren't for a few posters like me every damn person who was asking about Greenville would be told to move here even if it was an awful fit.

And PS its great that you can afford to choose where to live but some of us aren't that lucky in this economy.

Last edited by Yac; 01-24-2014 at 03:26 AM..
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Old 01-24-2014, 08:03 AM
 
1,443 posts, read 1,367,524 times
Reputation: 1051
To the OP, I hope the hostility in here by a few doesn't serve to turn you off from visiting the Upstate again. This area isn't perfect and isn't for everyone but it is the right fit for many folks.

Some of the things you noticed on your visit will likely be things you don't like about the area, and other things may have just been one time quirks. The Upstate area was at one time full of textile mills. Most of these closed but a few remain. Some of the closed mills still sit empty. Others have been re-purposed into apartments, shopping centers, etc. I understand the "putting on airs" comment completely and agree with you. I also think that is not a bad thing - it shows that the area is trying to transform itself into more than just a southern mill town. IMO, Greenville has done a good job of re-purposing itself in a new economy based primarily on manufacturing. I would like to see Greenville pursue a more diversified economy to help serve as a cushion against downturns in manufacturing and I think they are working in that direction.

Greenville benefited greatly from having leadership years ago that had a vision for re-vitalization of downtown when most locals thought it was a crazy idea. That downtown combined with proximity to a lot of outdoor activities in the nearby mountains has a lot of appeal for my me personally.

The area is predominantly conservative. Contrary to another opinion, I think places like Bob Jones do have an effect on the surrounding community, and it isn't always a good one. Having a university that does not allow female students to wear pants in the present day is just mind boggling to me. It doesn't normally effect me day to day but it is there.
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Old 01-24-2014, 12:35 PM
 
Location: Greenville, SC
1,384 posts, read 1,281,504 times
Reputation: 953
Well Greenville is #7 on the list of most Bible-minded cities, but Charlotte is #6!Barna | Knowledge to navigate a changing world
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