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I really think they should get ride of the suicide lane and look into flex lanes. I've seen them in Atlanta and Nashville. I think a couple places in Charlotte have them as well. There on more commercial boulevards in places like Utah. That would be cheaper and less disruptive than trying to cram in more lanes, especially on the section between Woodruff and 85. And dedicated turn lanes would be a big help.
I don't think left turns are the problem between 385 and Roper Mountain Rd. For the most part people use the lights in the Magnolia and Greenridge areas. The exceptions being the left turn into IHOP/Park Woodruff instead of going to the light and using the side entrance along Miller Rd and the left turn into Trader Joes instead of going to the light at Target and at least they put up a temporary barrier there between Black Friday and Christmas to prohibit left turns.
The way people drive around here, I don't think they could be trusted with flex lanes. Asking for head- on collisions. Raising medians and doing away with left turns are business killers and I don't think many restaurants/retailers would go along with that. Just what WR needs is a bunch of vacant commercial buildings because they will move onto greener pastures. Widening and that parallel rd that will be built behind Target may be the answers for that area.
I also commented on the survey recruiting some of Woodruff Rd's busiest/popular retailers like Target, Best Buy and Sam's to put additional locations on the other side of downtown or DT proper would help reduce trips to Woodruff Rd.
Last edited by vistatiger; 08-17-2017 at 12:59 PM..
I don't think left turns are the problem between 385 and Roper Mountain Rd. For the most part people use the lights in the Magnolia and Greenridge areas. The exceptions being the left turn into IHOP/Park Woodruff instead of going to the light and using the side entrance along Miller Rd and the left turn into Trader Joes instead of going to the light at Target and at least they put up a temporary barrier there between Black Friday and Christmas to prohibit left turns.
The way people drive around here, I don't think they could be trusted with flex lanes. Asking for head- on collisions. Raising medians and doing away with left turns are business killers and I don't think many restaurants/retailers would go along with that. Just what WR needs is a bunch of vacant commercial buildings because they will move onto greener pastures. Widening and that parallel rd that will be built behind Target may be the answers for that area.
I also commented on the survey recruiting some of Woodruff Rd's busiest/popular retailers like Target, Best Buy and Sam's to put additional locations on the other side of downtown or DT proper would help reduce trips to Woodruff Rd.
I'm not talking about left turns, it's the fact that there's 2 lanes each way. Get rid of the suicide lane and you can make it 2 and 3 lanes, or 3 and 2 lanes, depending on the time of day. You get an extra lane without having to do any new construction. Turning left is still possible. And I mean, if Atlanta can be trusted with flex lanes - and shoulder lanes, then I think Greenville can. Head on's happen regardless.
You can construct more lanes, but induced demand will eventually catch up. And there's the matter of taking parking spaces and property from these businesses.
IMO a flex lane, more parallel roads, but most importantly putting new shopping centers elsewhere, is Woodruff's best bet. I agree that Greenville needs to spread the retail wealth. Woodruff's issue is the same as rush hour. Everyone is trying to cram in and out of the same place.
I'm not talking about left turns, it's the fact that there's 2 lanes each way. Get rid of the suicide lane and you can make it 2 and 3 lanes, or 3 and 2 lanes, depending on the time of day. You get an extra lane without having to do any new construction. Turning left is still possible. And I mean, if Atlanta can be trusted with flex lanes - and shoulder lanes, then I think Greenville can. Head on's happen regardless.
You can construct more lanes, but induced demand will eventually catch up. And there's the matter of taking parking spaces and property from these businesses.
IMO a flex lane, more parallel roads, but most importantly putting new shopping centers elsewhere, is Woodruff's best bet. I agree that Greenville needs to spread the retail wealth. Woodruff's issue is the same as rush hour. Everyone is trying to cram in and out of the same place.
With a flex lane, how is it possible to make a left turn without blocking the flow of traffic in the left lane, while the car turning left waits for a break in oncoming traffic? The whole reason the suicide lane exists is to prevent that.
Flex lanes can work well on limited access highways. Generally all it is turning the shoulder into an extra lane during rush hour. They can also work well on surface streets if you restrict left turns, which ain't going to happen on Woodruff.
With a flex lane, how is it possible to make a left turn without blocking the flow of traffic in the left lane, while the car turning left waits for a break in oncoming traffic? The whole reason the suicide lane exists is to prevent that.
Flex lanes can work well on limited access highways. Generally all it is turning the shoulder into an extra lane during rush hour. They can also work well on surface streets if you restrict left turns, which ain't going to happen on Woodruff.
I agree. Flex lanes work really well in Charlotte on Hwy29 between the university area and the speedway in Concord but the area's commercial/ apartment development is much better planned with limited access along 29 than the mess that's Woodruff Rd.
Woodruff's problem isn't the number of lanes. Its the fact that traffic lights on woodruff don't have long enough greens for the traffic on woodruff to get up to a decent speed.
This could seem like a simple fix, but in reality the problem is none of side streets or shopping centers (except Greenridge) on Woodruff have multiple turn lanes going in or coming out. When traffic on Woodruff has a red generally only 1 or 2 lanes of traffic still flows through the intersections. Put in double left lanes going in and out, right turn lanes going in and out. This allows more traffic to queue up, but you can clear those queues a lot quicker with multiple lanes, which in turn allows for longer greens for traffic on Woodruff.
The city of Greenville had the chance to correct this with the center entrance into magnolia park. The fact that city didn't mandate the developer put multiple left turn lanes coming out of the entrance by Cheddars and ask for bigger set backs from Woodruff to allow room for that intersection to be improved later was a major screw-up. Thats honestly the biggest hurdle to improving Woodruff, everything is built so dang close to the road. There isn't room to improve in many places without acquiring the entire parcel a business sits on, which ain't cheap. The right of away costs in many places could be higher than the cost of the work itself.
Why are they asking us how to fix this? Aren't there civil engineers who dedicate their lives to studying traffic patterns and optimal road layouts, who have approached problems like this before in other cities and have studied previous cases, and who know what will work, what won't, and what will be most cost-effective? The county should hire three of those people, get three reports, and see what they suggest. Bonus points if they all suggest the same thing.
Why are they asking us how to fix this? Aren't there civil engineers who dedicate their lives to studying traffic patterns and optimal road layouts, who have approached problems like this before in other cities and have studied previous cases, and who know what will work, what won't, and what will be most cost-effective? The county should hire three of those people, get three reports, and see what they suggest. Bonus points if they all suggest the same thing.
Because they don't know how!
I remember when it was 2 lane, from Laurens Rd all the way to 101, with the exception of a short area near Greenville Mall.
The best solution would be to stop piling more and more onto it, but its super desirable to commercial so. If the visions for Laurens Road follow through then that could provide some relief. A reverse migration back to Laurens from Woodruff.
I agree with DDI, and getting rid of the suicide lanes may help. You could turn the suicide lane into a flex lane. The median lane is turned into an extra lane for one side, depending on the time of day. So instead of 2 and 2, and it's 2 and 3 and 3 and 2.
A link from Verdae to Woodruff Industrial would also allow people to bypass Magnolia traffic. And Woodruff needs more right turn only lanes, so people who are trying to turn don't hold up everyone else. And of course smart lights.
I personally had a bad experience many years ago with what you call a flex lane in a city I was unfamiliar with. From where I came in and out of the street with this switching lane, there weren't any visible signs I could see. When leaving a fast food place, went in to one of the lanes that was going in the direction one would think that lane would be headed. Thankfully, I finally saw the sign that the lane switched to the other direction during the time I was driving it. That was after a small hill. I thank goodness I didn't meet another car head on. I can only imagine, with the traffic on Woodruff, this would be something that could happen often if they tried this so-called "flex" lane. I try to avoid Woodruff Rd as it is now, this would make me avoid it more, or at least the flex lane, if it ever came to that.
The Scuffletown Area road plan and the other road plans all say new subdivisions should have multiple entrances and exits and be interconnected and all that and that was years ago and they are still all one entrance cul de sac marvels that don't help either
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I can only imagine, with the traffic on Woodruff, this would be something that could happen often if they tried this so-called "flex" lane. I try to avoid Woodruff Rd as it is now, this would make me avoid it more, or at least the flex lane, if it ever came to that.
