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Old 09-14-2017, 01:24 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simpsonvilllian View Post
Can you quote anybody in Greenville making that kind of comment? I have never heard anybody say that.

There are roads as busy or busier than Woodruff Road up north and elsewhere. Your premise appears to be there is no traffic congestion up north.

I would say the shopping centers in Greenville are similar to the ones that I have seen up north and elsewhere.
Pretty much every member of my extended family on both sides over the age of 50 that has lived locally their entire life has that point of view. I remember family members years ago railing against the "complete waste of money" when Greenville was removing the Camperdown bridge and starting revitalization of downtown.

I never said that there isn't significant congestion and problems in other parts of the country. Traffic congestion is even worse in much of the more densely populated parts of the country. It's hard to find older suburban areas anywhere in this country without abandoned, neglected shopping centers. The trick is recognizing this as a problem and taking steps to prevent it from reoccurring over and over again.
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Old 09-14-2017, 02:46 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simpsonvilllian View Post
It seems unrealistic to expect to walk between every store / restaurant within a metro to other stores. ..

I don't see any reason Pleasantburg needs to be a grade A commercial corridor.
Nobody would expect to walk between every store.

My point is that if streets were built on a grid, and stores were closer to the street, then people who wanted to walk between stores could, which would reduce traffic.

A grid street system would also reduce congestion, even if nobody walked, since instead of having one main road that everyone was trying to get on, there would be multiple parallel roads.

I don't see any reason that Pleasantburg needs to be a grade C commercial corridor. It's a grade C commercial corridor because new development was built further out, rather than investments being made in the Pleasantburg corridor to keep it fresh. The continuing cycle of "build something, use it for 20 years, and then build something new in 20 years farther out and abandon the old" results in unnecessary waste, and miles of Greenville that just look bad.
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Old 09-14-2017, 02:50 PM
 
Location: Greenville SC 'Waterfall City'
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Business locate where they do based on proximity to customers. The center of the population shifted to the east and so shopping centers were developed in that area. It has nothing to do with a lack of 'investments' on Pleasantburg.

I don't think that I have seen big box stores in a metro all on a street grid. I don't think there are many people who want to walk between stores like Lowes and Costco.

I don't view Pleasantburg as abandoned. It is not abandoned simply because it doesn't have the kind of stores you want on it. The Freshmarket shopping center was built in last 20 years. The University Center is located in that former mall.

You can already walk between numerous stores in these various shopping centers. The reason for the congestion is the large number of stores in the area.

Last edited by ClemVegas; 09-14-2017 at 03:07 PM..
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Old 09-14-2017, 03:22 PM
 
Location: Greenville SC 'Waterfall City'
7,530 posts, read 3,936,834 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhitewaterVol View Post
Pretty much every member of my extended family on both sides over the age of 50 that has lived locally their entire life has that point of view. I remember family members years ago railing against the "complete waste of money" when Greenville was removing the Camperdown bridge and starting revitalization of downtown.

I never said that there isn't significant congestion and problems in other parts of the country. Traffic congestion is even worse in much of the more densely populated parts of the country. It's hard to find older suburban areas anywhere in this country without abandoned, neglected shopping centers. The trick is recognizing this as a problem and taking steps to prevent it from reoccurring over and over again.
I thought your point was up north they do planning better than down south. If not, why did you mention 'Yankees'?

I have never heard natives randomly railing against 'Yankees' here.

A legit function of government is zoning so I can't see anybody railing against socialism in this context. If you are criticizing the zoning in Greenville, you are criticizing the government. I don't think 'anti-government' people have a problem with you criticizing the government.

Last edited by ClemVegas; 09-14-2017 at 04:12 PM..
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Old 09-14-2017, 04:22 PM
 
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Simpsonvillian, have you been to McBee Station downtown? It has a Staples and a Publix, and it's set up against a street that forms part of a grid system. That's similar to what I have in mind.

If Pleasantburg had been built with good-quality buildings on a grid system, it would not be nearly as derelict as it is. Check-cashing stores and Goodwill stores and semi-abandoned malls (look at the former Belk-Simpson at McAlister Square) are not desirable, compared to what could be there.
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Old 09-14-2017, 06:26 PM
 
Location: Greenville SC 'Waterfall City'
7,530 posts, read 3,936,834 times
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If there was a huge demand for stores on Pleasantburg, they would be over there. You said the reason the stores moved from Pleasantburg is people couldn't park and walk to various stores, but there was a mall located there where they could do that.

McBee Station doesn't have big box stores like Greenridge and Magnolia Park. The Publix and Staples are both small format stores. The Costco building by itself is probably larger than the entire McBee Station development. I would say McBee Station is more likely to struggle in the future than shopping centers on Woodruff Road.

People can easily walk between stores within the Greenridge and Magnolia Park shopping centers.

Last edited by ClemVegas; 09-14-2017 at 07:01 PM..
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Old 09-14-2017, 08:08 PM
 
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Simpsonvillian, you're completely missing the point.
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Old 09-14-2017, 09:03 PM
 
Location: Greenville SC 'Waterfall City'
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Magnolia Park was built on the site of the former Greenville Mall. The city didn't have to make 'investments' on Woodruff road for this that I know of.

If there is money to be made locating in a certain area, developers will tear down old buildings if they don't suit.

Both McAlister and Greenville malls folded because Haywood Mall was the largest and most popular mall. It didn't have anything to do with zoning in my view.

The former McAlister Square mall is being used by the University Center. The Freshmarket shopping center opened in past 10-15 years despite no investment by the city that I know of.

I thought your point is that the current and past shopping centers don't have any walkability.

Both Greenridge and Magnolia Park have streets and sidewalks within the developments. I don't see how a big box store shopping center can be more walkable than Greenridge and Magnolia Park.

Last edited by ClemVegas; 09-14-2017 at 09:36 PM..
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Old 09-15-2017, 03:19 AM
 
1,280 posts, read 427,352 times
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No, that's not my point at all, and your last post in particular has nothing to do with my point. It's not worth continuing this discussion.
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Old 09-15-2017, 07:58 AM
 
2,376 posts, read 2,119,139 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simpsonvilllian View Post
I thought your point was up north they do planning better than down south. If not, why did you mention 'Yankees'?

I have never heard natives randomly railing against 'Yankees' here.

A legit function of government is zoning so I can't see anybody railing against socialism in this context. If you are criticizing the zoning in Greenville, you are criticizing the government. I don't think 'anti-government' people have a problem with you criticizing the government.
The point I was trying to make was that a significant chunk of the local population is strongly opposed to any type of zoning or planning. Many of my relatives from the Boomer generation that are local see any type of zoning and/or planning by government as some type of evil "librul" scheme by "Yankees" to take over the south. I know that sounds crazy but that is the type of stuff I hear around the table while relatives eat at Christmas parties, family reunions, weddings, and funerals. This isn't people joking, either.....

My prediction is that the OP is right in that 20 years, the Woodruff Road corridor will be largely abandoned in favor of some new hotspot, much like what has happened along Laurens Road. The only thing that might change that is that a lot of Millennials seem to embrace more urban development that was spurned by the Boomer generation.
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