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Old 08-04-2018, 02:41 AM
 
Location: Greenville SC 'Waterfall City'
10,106 posts, read 7,314,575 times
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I did a deep dive into FBI crime data for MSAs, as one does late on a Friday night. Here is the link to the FBI data: https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s...abledatadecpdf

For some reason, the FBI didn't have data for Greenville in more recent years so I ended up going back to 2012.

It reports a total of 4,814 violent crimes for the Greenville MSA for 2012. This includes 54 murders including non-negligent manslaughter. The city of Greenville reported only 1 murder.

NYC had 52,993 violent crimes which includes 419 murders. That's just the city, not including the numbers for the entire MSA.

The city of Los Angeles had 18,547 violent crimes which includes 299 murders. The Los Angeles MSA had 51,345 violent crimes and 651 murders.

So Greenville's MSA had 9.3 percent of the number of violent crimes as the Los Angeles MSA. Greenville MSA had 8.2 percent of the total number of murders of the Los Angeles MSA. Greenville city had 0.33 percent of the total number of murders in Los Angeles city.

Back in 1992 during the Rodney King riots, a record was set for the number of homicides in Los Angeles County: 2,589. http://www.laweekly.com/news/despite...-to-be-7074803 This is despite the fact Los Angeles County has the highest number of millionaires of any county in the nation according to Wikipedia.
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Old 08-04-2018, 06:05 AM
 
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1992 LA County population: 9.05 million
2010 LA County population: 9.83 million
2010 LA MSA population: 13.26 million
2010 LA Metropolitan Region: 17.8 million
2010 NYC population: 8.192 million

2010 Greenville County population: 0.452 million
2010 Greenville MSA population: 0.821 million

The numbers you give are hard to compare because the different areas have such different demography. LA County has vastly lower population density than the much smaller area of New York City. The City of Greenville itself is probably a less useful data point in that it is such a tiny area (under 60,000 in 2010, or 0.059 million).

As has been discussed above, when comparing numbers for crime one is usually measuring risk (X crimes per person), not raw numbers. So the crime numbers you give are numerators of ratios without regard for denominators.

The LA County murder numbers for 1992 you list are very high, but not very meaningful to calculating current risks given how much crime levels have dropped.
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Old 08-04-2018, 10:33 AM
 
Location: Greenville SC 'Waterfall City'
10,106 posts, read 7,314,575 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Downtown27 View Post
1992 LA County population: 9.05 million
2010 LA County population: 9.83 million
2010 LA MSA population: 13.26 million
2010 LA Metropolitan Region: 17.8 million
2010 NYC population: 8.192 million

2010 Greenville County population: 0.452 million
2010 Greenville MSA population: 0.821 million

The numbers you give are hard to compare because the different areas have such different demography. LA County has vastly lower population density than the much smaller area of New York City. The City of Greenville itself is probably a less useful data point in that it is such a tiny area (under 60,000 in 2010, or 0.059 million).

As has been discussed above, when comparing numbers for crime one is usually measuring risk (X crimes per person), not raw numbers. So the crime numbers you give are numerators of ratios without regard for denominators.

The LA County murder numbers for 1992 you list are very high, but not very meaningful to calculating current risks given how much crime levels have dropped.
The per capita numbers are not measuring risk.
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Old 08-04-2018, 07:27 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClemVegas View Post
The per capita numbers are not measuring risk.
Not exactly, true. But raw numbers of crime are meaningless without the context of population.
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Old 08-05-2018, 09:28 AM
 
2,307 posts, read 3,820,565 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClemVegas View Post
I never understood what the problem is with SC schools.

I know a ton of people who went to SC schools that got accepted by good colleges and obtained careers in challenging professions. I know SC people who didn't go to college who make a good living.

This seems like significant evidence that the SC school system hires good teachers.

I wonder what 'uneducated' people think when they see studies like this in which they are presented as a negative attribute for a metro.

As Excellent as the schools in Fort Mill, Greenville, Suburban Columbia and Mount Pleasant are...remember the schools in the Pee Dee and I-95 corridor get lumped in essentially bringing down the state as a whole.

Educational and academic methodology would not consider this to begin with. Detroit and Pittsburgh, heck any rust belt city back in the 50s and 60s would've not measured up academically because you could drop out of high school get a job making well into the upper middle class tax bracket and be an american success. A high school dropout with 2 cars, 2 story house, vacationing in Florida for a week every summer was in some cases nothing short of "normal". Am reading a book about Aliquippa, PA in its peak days back in the 60s / early 70s when the USW was able to achieve a 13 week vacation every five years for its union membership. Plus guys were making upwards of 6 figures a year (in todays money) as "unskilled" union laborers in the 70s in that town. Imagine today if someone told you at age 17 that you didn't need a high school diploma and could make 6 figures working, albeit in a blast furnace for 10 hours a day.


The people who didn't go to college and make a good living that we all know still graduated high school at least and still work a job i'm guessing that is at worst "semi-skilled" or a professional trade.
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Old 08-05-2018, 02:10 PM
 
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South Carolina (and the South generally) just isn't an academics-focused region; it takes cultural change to fix the lack of education among large parts of the population, and that takes time.
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Old 08-05-2018, 05:36 PM
 
37,796 posts, read 41,518,596 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greenvillebuckeye View Post
As Excellent as the schools in Fort Mill, Greenville, Suburban Columbia and Mount Pleasant are...remember the schools in the Pee Dee and I-95 corridor get lumped in essentially bringing down the state as a whole.

Educational and academic methodology would not consider this to begin with. Detroit and Pittsburgh, heck any rust belt city back in the 50s and 60s would've not measured up academically because you could drop out of high school get a job making well into the upper middle class tax bracket and be an american success. A high school dropout with 2 cars, 2 story house, vacationing in Florida for a week every summer was in some cases nothing short of "normal". Am reading a book about Aliquippa, PA in its peak days back in the 60s / early 70s when the USW was able to achieve a 13 week vacation every five years for its union membership. Plus guys were making upwards of 6 figures a year (in todays money) as "unskilled" union laborers in the 70s in that town. Imagine today if someone told you at age 17 that you didn't need a high school diploma and could make 6 figures working, albeit in a blast furnace for 10 hours a day.


The people who didn't go to college and make a good living that we all know still graduated high school at least and still work a job i'm guessing that is at worst "semi-skilled" or a professional trade.
The historic prevalence of the textile industry and having a more manufacutring-oriented workforce today also explains why Greenville's educational attainment rate lags a bit compared to some its peers: https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2...ca-in-one-town
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Old 08-05-2018, 07:02 PM
 
Location: Greenville SC 'Waterfall City'
10,106 posts, read 7,314,575 times
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I think Greenville is the most educated part of the state. It is a major engineering hub in this country and it has the best private sector and STEM oriented job market in the state.

Many of the jobs at the manufacturing companies in Greenville require engineering degrees and other college degrees.

There are a lot more uneducated people in number living in Atlanta, Charlotte and other larger cities than Greenville.

I don't think it makes sense to associate lack of focus on academics with the south in general. Students in the south with educated parents in the south generally do well in school.

According to the School Digger website, 14 of the 30 SC schools with the highest test scores are in the Upstate. https://www.schooldigger.com/go/SC/districtrank.aspx

Last edited by ClemVegas; 08-05-2018 at 07:20 PM..
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Old 08-05-2018, 07:19 PM
 
Location: Greenville SC 'Waterfall City'
10,106 posts, read 7,314,575 times
Reputation: 4072
Quote:
Originally Posted by greenvillebuckeye View Post
As Excellent as the schools in Fort Mill, Greenville, Suburban Columbia and Mount Pleasant are...remember the schools in the Pee Dee and I-95 corridor get lumped in essentially bringing down the state as a whole.
During the 2014-2015 school year, there were 13,601 regular public elementary and secondary school districts, according to the National Center for Education Statistics (NCES).

73.42% of the students in SC (555,471 students in 2014-2015) were enrolled in one of the 1000 largest school districts in the country. That percentage is the 8th largest in the country, nearly tied with Virginia and higher than NC and GA.

Here is my source for this info: https://ballotpedia.org/Largest_scho..._by_enrollment

That means that if SC schools in the urban areas of SC were to improve even moderately, SC's education stats should improve significantly. It probably would move into the middle range of states if that happened. The rural areas don't really have much impact in a relative sense.

I think Columbia's Richland 01 school district is the biggest ball and chain for SC's academic stats. It is one of the largest school districts by enrollment. School Digger has it ranked 62nd in the state for test scores. This is despite the state's flagship and largest university with the professional schools (medical, pharmacy, law) being located in downtown Columbia.

Last edited by ClemVegas; 08-05-2018 at 07:30 PM..
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Old 08-05-2018, 08:59 PM
 
1,279 posts, read 841,281 times
Reputation: 2054
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClemVegas View Post
I don't think it makes sense to associate lack of focus on academics with the south in general. Students in the south with educated parents in the south generally do well in school.
Try living in Greenville and having a, say, Yale degree. People will generally make an issue of it and you won’t fit in with everyone else when education comes up.
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