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Old 10-31-2019, 09:39 PM
 
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With Freeze Warnings and snow flurries nearby in the GA/NC mountains tonight and lows in the 30's Upstate SC finally, might as well start the thread!

Some general area winter weather info / resource links:
(no wintry weather for us yet, but first frost likely soon)

Newcomers summary:
We usually only get a couple chances of snow a year, even threat of a small amount shuts things down, snow typically melts within 1 to 3 days. Typically a mixed bag of rain, sleet, ice back and forth. i85 can sometimes be a magical dividing line. Occasionally an ice storm comes through but it's been awhile since a big one hit. There's a giant mound of salt/sand mix SCDOT has stored alongside i85 mm57 in the tall shed with no door facing i85. SCDOT also now employs a large liquid pre-treat sprayer vehicle that can coat 3 lanes of i85 at once.

Stats 1892-2019 (courtesy NWS GSP https://www.weather.gov/media/gsp/Cl...ySNobs_htm.pdf
Notes: Totals are snow & sleet combined since we usually get a mix (ice(freezing rain) totals kept separate). Everyone see a little different. I talked to NWS GSP for where totals come from and got: Totals are from GSP airport Oct. 1962-present, prior are from GMU (Greenville Airport by downtown / 385 (GMU website says airport opened in 1928)) or are from 'observing site in Greenville before then, or Spartanburg to cover data gaps'. I also believe I've seen some older records from 1800's and early 1900's taken from various Upstate locations. On totals below I counted "Trace" amount of snow as 0.01" so totals may be slightly off from GSP, but this way I didn't end up with 0" for those times as we did get 'something'. Official data is missing for Nov-Jan 1894/95, Dec 1948, Nov 1955.

-In 127 years only 2011-2012 season was officially 0"
-Highest season total ever 21.4" 1935-1936
-Earliest snow: October of 1913 & 1926 only
-Latest snow: May 1993 only
-White Christmas: 1909, 1945, 1947, 1963, 1966, 1969, 1975, 2009, 2010
-Snowiest months since 1892 highest to lowest: Jan, Feb, Dec, Mar, Nov, Apr, Oct, May

Averages:
-Since 1892: Oct 0", Nov 0.09", Dec 0.94", Jan 1.78", Feb 1.58", Mar 0.77", Apr 0", Annual 5.13"
-Last 50 years: Oct 0", Nov 0.07", Dec 0.65", Jan 2.06", Feb 1.42", Mar 0.84", Apr 0.01", Annual 5.04"
-Last 30 years: Oct 0", Nov 0.08", Dec 0.60", Jan 1.63", Feb 1.00", Mar 0.59", Apr 0", Annual 3.90"
-Last 10 years: Oct 0", Nov 0.01", Dec 0.82", Jan 1.65", Feb 1.68", Mar 0.14", Apr 0", Annual 4.30"

Helpful links/info:
-Local NWS Snow maps: Experimental NWS maps (date last updated on bottom of image, totals valid for date(s) at image top): 3 main maps showing: expected totals, a 10% chance of happening max totals, & a 90% chance of something higher then shown low end min totals. Below that is percent chance of x" snow from 0.1" to >18" snow maps: https://www.weather.gov/gsp/winter

-Local NWS Snow/Ice maps: Expected totals maps of both here: https://www.weather.gov/gsp/brief_winter

-National Snow Probability (% chance) maps:
--Next 3 days (change date just above map, change snow totals on right of map): https://origin.wpc.ncep.noaa.gov/pwp...=24&ptype=snow
--Days 4-7 (Assume for 2.5" or higher, change date just above map): https://origin.wpc.ncep.noaa.gov/wwd...medr.php?day=4

-National Ice(Freezing rain) Probability (% chance) maps:
Next 3 days (change date just above map, change ice totals on right of map): https://origin.wpc.ncep.noaa.gov/pwp...=24&ptype=icez

-Weather Models: Note: Models "see" different things (so when they agree we watch closely what they're saying), handle parts of storms differently, and some include mixed precipitation in their snow totals making appear higher, so best to look at many and not just the one you want to happen. Many models don't include ground warmth melting your snow totals away or back and forth mixing that erodes totals either. Many models run at 10:1 snow ratio (1" rain = 10" snow) but reality may be less or more and vary during event.
--Weather.US (change "Weather Model" (EURO(ECMWF) and GFS(Global US Standard) are main ones) & date box as desired to see precipitation type, & change "Change Parameter" from "Significant Weather" to "Snow Depth" for snow totals: https://weather.us/model-charts/euro...t-weather.html
--TropicalTidbits: https://tropicaltidbits.com/analysis/models/
-Many more out there, but there's 2 for the curious.

-Weather apps: Apps/sites typically use just one model run out of dozens available, only update every so often, aren't human interpreted. Useful, but have multiple sources of info to get the true picture. Large majority use GFS models since its free data from US gov (NOAA) which updates 4 times per day. Weather Channel, Intellicast and Weather Underground apps/sites are IBM now and may be using their own in-house modeling.

-Report Precipitation Type to National Weather Service / Your Neighbors:
-mPing iOs/Android app, free and ad-free! Meteorologists/NWS actually use these reports, great way to see how close actual snow falling to the ground is to you as well! https://mping.nssl.noaa.gov/
-mPing is also integrated and usable in RadarScope radar app. https://www.radarscope.app/
-on Twitter use "#nwsgsp" or tag @NWSGSP to report to our local NWS office (also on FaceBook).
-The NWS loves to hear your reports! Radar only tells them what's happening a few thousand feet up.

-Weather Terms:
-Snow: 32 degrees or less from cloud to near ground level for snow.
-Sleet: like tiny hail, just frozen rain drops, a problem if too many accumulate on roadway but they don't get larger like summer time hail.
-Freezing Rain (Ice) (the 'bad' ice): rain that freezes once it touches something (power line, tree, roads, etc), often fools people because "It's just raining", but that's why its called freezing 'rain'. Happens when rains at 32 degrees or less. Very dangerous. Easily can get 100's of car wrecks in our area from this.
In general:
0.01" = lite harmless glisten on trees
0.10" = bridge/overpass issues, maybe spotty road issues elsewhere.
0.25" = trees start to bend, start of tree/power issues, widespread road issues.
0.50" = scattered to widespread tree/power issues, roads icy.
-Black Ice: Thin layer of ice, road often looks just wet or damp but is actually frozen, very hard to know if frozen until it's too late. Usually occurs in freezing rain or snow melt runoff that refreezes overnight.
-CAD: Cold Air Daming, main ingredient for us to get freezing rain / ice storms, cold air is pushed down and damed in / trapped against the base of the mountains and spreads across Upstate SC region.

Last edited by Psychoma; 10-31-2019 at 10:43 PM..
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Old 11-01-2019, 06:19 AM
 
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35 here in Tigerville this AM, 35 degrees colder than yesterday. We got 5.1" of rain over the last two days. I finally got my winter rye planted, and it's growing nicely (what didn't wash down the hill yesterday). Other than collards, the garden is pretty much done for the season.
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Old 11-01-2019, 07:11 AM
 
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Patchy frost on the cars in Duncan this AM. Frost advisories for the Upstate for Sat AM & likely again thru Mon AM. That’s a good amount of rain especially after that period of practically none!
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Old 11-01-2019, 07:43 AM
 
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Psychoma, nicely done as usual.

In looking at snow in the past; the official reporting station (for the GSP area) recorded 26 years of snowfall with at least 10.0 inches from 1882-1883 to 1992-1993 (a 111 year period), or nearly one in every 4 years. The worst stretch (before now) looks like 1937-1959, with just 2 seasons in a 23 year span, seeing double digits (although 39-40 had 9.9). However, GSP hasn't recorded a season with 10.0 or more
since the 1992-1993 season, so we're in a 26 year drought (throw out the 93 Storm of the Century and it becomes a 31 year drought); pretty glaring! In fact, only 6 of those seasons recorded 6.0 or more and only 3 recorded 8.0 or more. So, in short, we're not getting nearly as much snow as we used to. On the other hand, the best period looks like from 59-60 to 87-88; where 13/29 seasons recorded at least 10 inches. Keep in mind, there can be quite a bit of variablilty in the area.

Saw Pickens airport was down to 32 earlier this morning.
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Old 11-01-2019, 09:08 AM
 
Location: Outskirts of Gray Court, and love it!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychoma View Post
Patchy frost on the cars in Duncan this AM. Frost advisories for the Upstate for Sat AM & likely again thru Mon AM. That’s a good amount of rain especially after that period of practically none!
Same at my house n Gray Court. It was weird though, one car had light frost, one beside it didnt. My youngest son said his was like half way down the back windshield but the front was perfectly clear.
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Old 11-01-2019, 09:54 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MushCreek View Post
35 here in Tigerville this AM, 35 degrees colder than yesterday. We got 5.1" of rain over the last two days. I finally got my winter rye planted, and it's growing nicely (what didn't wash down the hill yesterday). Other than collards, the garden is pretty much done for the season.

I'm still getting tomatoes and my hot peppers. One of the tomato plants had blooms on it yesterday. We're growing in planters that are on the 'porch' at our office.. I'm astounded. the cucumbers have died out.. I've never gotten anything worthwhile from the green/red peppers.. But the Jalapenos, just picked several yesterday.. Got some of the Coolapenos coming in. A ghost pepper about 3 or 4 days from being ready.. And I've probably got 30 tomatoes still on vines (Mostly cherry tomatoes, but a few Romas as well)

The Basil and purple basil are in rough shape, but the cinnamon basil is still good.

Lettuce and Kale were planted over a month ago and.. Don't seem to be going great. They're growing, just not with any real speed. Might be able to make a side salad by spring.
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Old 11-01-2019, 10:49 AM
 
Location: Upstate SC
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Yeah, https://twitter.com/nwsgsp is great. I always use it during weather events.


They were blowing snow at Cataloochee this morning. Next weekend is supposed to be super cold.
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Old 11-01-2019, 04:15 PM
 
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Weird random question.

I've noticed looking at the temperature map Greenwood SC always seems to drop at least 3 to 4 degrees colder each night then the rest of the Greenville metro area, anyone know why? The only thing I could think of is the heat island effect of more buildings and population in the area compared to down there.
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Old 11-02-2019, 08:27 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by distortedlogic View Post
...GSP hasn't recorded a season with 10.0 or more since the 1992-1993 season, so we're in a 26 year drought (throw out the 93 Storm of the Century and it becomes a 31 year drought)...
Thanks! Personally I hope we cross that double digit threshold this season!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bruce View Post
Yeah, https://twitter.com/nwsgsp is great. I always use it during weather events.
Yes its quite a feat GSP can get all that data typed up, out the door and post on social media so quickly while covering such a large area with limited number of staff (they did announce an opening in October!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Franchise25 View Post
Weird random question.
I've noticed looking at the temperature map Greenwood SC always seems to drop at least 3 to 4 degrees colder each night then the rest of the Greenville metro area, anyone know why? The only thing I could think of is the heat island effect of more buildings and population in the area compared to down there.
hmmm...heat island effect definitely part of that, but to what extent not sure. Further S so would think would offset that just being warmer further S you go generally. Elevation roughly 600', while Greenville is closer to 1000'. But Lake Shores just NE of Greenwood this morning looks colder then rest of region though. Looks like it drops below 500' right at Saluda River and that with terrain may be just a low spot cold air is pooling in perhaps.
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Old 11-02-2019, 08:36 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychoma View Post
Thanks! Personally I hope we cross that double digit threshold this season!



Yes its quite a feat GSP can get all that data typed up, out the door and post on social media so quickly while covering such a large area with limited number of staff (they did announce an opening in October!)



hmmm...heat island effect definitely part of that, but to what extent not sure. Further S so would think would offset that just being warmer further S you go generally. Elevation roughly 600', while Greenville is closer to 1000'. But Lake Shores just NE of Greenwood this morning looks colder then rest of region though. Looks like it drops below 500' right at Saluda River and that with terrain may be just a low spot cold air is pooling in perhaps.
Yeah I was thinking either the heat island effect or the effect of cold air sinking in certain lower elevations (think of a valley) than us. Nevertheless thanks for the reply Psychoma!
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