Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Is there a level of costs that would be acceptable to bring more passenger rail to the upstate?
For example, if the cost per year to the government was as low as $500,000 or $1 million, would that be acceptable?
Per mile? That wouldn't be enough money to even purchase land.
It's going to be an astronomical investment. I would love to have a train, but it would cost billions just for the ATL to CLT line. Where would that money come from? What other areas that need tax payer dollars, would we have to rob that from. There is only so much money, even in a Trillion dollar plus bill.
What is the purpose of the train really? Is it really for high speed travel? Or is it bragging rights, or the romantic lure of it? How much would you pay to go to Atlanta or Charlotte. What is reasonable?
There is a startup trying to build passenger electric VTOL aircraft (urban air taxi). It could zip you to CLT in 45 min or ATL in about an hour. Since its private, very little tax dollars would be needed. Or we could use some tax dollars to help develop this type of transportation.
I don't know much about potential passenger rail projects, but I do know there is already a long distance train that passes through Atlanta and Greenville and Spartanburg and Charlotte twice daily. I would think they could use the same rails and not need to buy any more land.
I briefly worked in Charlotte while living in Greenville, for a few months after being laid off from my Greenville job in 2009. It was a miserable commute and I'd have been glad to take a train. If it was convenient enough I'd have done that indefinitely, live in Greenville and work in CLT. But that's if and only if getting to the train station in Greenville and getting from the train station in Charlotte to my employer would not be to long or difficult.
I don't know much about potential passenger rail projects, but I do know there is already a long distance train that passes through Atlanta and Greenville and Spartanburg and Charlotte twice daily. I would think they could use the same rails and not need to buy any more land.
You're 100% right.
Current proposals for additional train service in the Upstate, and the types of trains that NC and VA have added in the past few years, are conventional trains using existing cars and locomotives and existing, conventional track.
If one of the numerous Charlotte-Raleigh trains were extended to Atlanta, the costs of running the train over existing track, to existing stations, and with existing cars and locomotives, would be mostly just operating costs.
When Virginia added a similar train (from Washington to Lynchburg), it budgeted $2.9 million per year in state subsidy and spent significantly less, since the costs of just running a train aren't that high.
When people say "we can't have a train, it would cost billions", that's like telling a teenager or a spouse that he or she can't have a car because a Rolls-Royce is too expensive.
Nobody is proposing a high-speed, expensive system for the Upstate, other than the inane Georgia DOT proposal which will never happen (and the money that the GA DOT is spending for a study, for a high-speed train system that has almost no chance of ever being built, is a complete waste of money).
The specific proposals for actual trains are the ones above: conventional trains using existing equipment on existing track. That's what Amtrak is currently proposing.
It would be nice to have improved track for fast trains, but the political will isn't there to spend the money for that.
Last edited by GSPNative; 06-14-2021 at 01:08 PM..
The Gateway (I-85/I-385 interchange upgrade) cost about $240 million. I have zero problem with that, either.
It also provides access to many more people, as well as commercial traffic. The value transported over that interchange vs. a single passenger rail route is considerably higher and more beneficial.
It also provides access to many more people, as well as commercial traffic. The value transported over that interchange vs. a single passenger rail route is considerably higher and more beneficial.
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
23,814 posts, read 34,678,989 times
Reputation: 10256
Quote:
Originally Posted by USNRET04
Per mile? That wouldn't be enough money to even purchase land.
It's going to be an astronomical investment. I would love to have a train, but it would cost billions just for the ATL to CLT line. Where would that money come from? What other areas that need tax payer dollars, would we have to rob that from. There is only so much money, even in a Trillion dollar plus bill.
What is the purpose of the train really? Is it really for high speed travel? Or is it bragging rights, or the romantic lure of it? How much would you pay to go to Atlanta or Charlotte. What is reasonable?
There is a startup trying to build passenger electric VTOL aircraft (urban air taxi). It could zip you to CLT in 45 min or ATL in about an hour. Since its private, very little tax dollars would be needed. Or we could use some tax dollars to help develop this type of transportation.
NCDOT worked with Virginia to get the line from DC to Raleigh upgraded for high speed diesel. There is one stretch left between Richmond and Raleigh. Hopefully Biden's infrastructure bill will plug that hole. The new train station has been built in Raleigh. The new station for Charlotte needs to be built.
The Lynx line in Charlotte was extended. Next is a line running from Matthew's to Belmont. Gaston County wants to extend the light rail line from Belmont to Gastonia, possibly as far out as Kings Mountain.
Right now the problem isn't Greenville or Spartanburg. It's Cherokee County. You'll never convince the state government to invest rail money there. NCDOT has been working with Georgia on extending the high speed diesel from Charlotte to Atlanta. The last I heard they were trying to decide if they would keep the existing route, through Gastonia, which takes the train through Cherokee County or divert through York County. Also, Norfolk Southern isn't big on sharing their line with passenger trains.
I checked further, and North Carolina spends $1.5 million per year for each of the pairs of Charlotte-to-Raleigh trains.
So I think it's reasonable to expect the SC portion of an Atlanta-to-Charlotte (and to Raleigh) pair of trains to be about $1.5 million per year.
My comments earlier was hung up on high speed trains. I just assumed we wanted to get to destinations quicker and more efficiently than we could now.
For instance, Charlotte-to-Raleigh train trip is a reasonable $33 one way and the travel time is a little over 3 hours. Of course this doesn't include travel to and from the station, waiting at the station or paying for parking if needed. So lets say 4 hours train time (parking/waiting) and possibly 30 min each way to final destinations. So 5 hours. (Just an average guess).
To drive Charlotte-to-Raleigh, it's about 2H 40min. Roughly $18 in fuel. You could argue 3 hours if spending time in traffic. Still a 2 hour savings and $30 in your pocket. And of course this is all on a SINGLE PASSENGER. If you have a second person in the car, the costs per person go down exponentially or up if you are on the train.
The Amtrak proposal, if they could keep prices the same as above would work for folks who don't have personal transportation, or just don't feel like driving. Those who don't want to take a bus or plane. I can see business persons who could work on the train as they travel instead of driving.
My point is, will their be enough residents willing to spend more than double the cost and time to take a Amtrak? Would it be a ROI and not have to rely a whole lot on tax dollars?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
