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I agree. It'd probably get good capture of the local market, Columbia, SC and Augusta, GA, and some capture from the Charlotte and Atlanta metro areas.
Southwest has service out of Norfolk, VA and Birmingham, AL which are near to smaller size markets. Even if you tally up Norfolk and Richmond metros together its less than Greenville/Asheville + Columbia + Augusta.
The way it looks is that there are a number of flights from PHL-RDU, and BWI-RDU, and AirTran has BWI-CLT.
So, if there is oversaturation already and driving is still a competitive alternate travel, one BWI-RDU flight could be eliminated in favor of a BWI-GSP route if there is concern over Origin and Departure (O&D) traffic to GSP, and one could get from ISP, PVD etc. into BWI then southbound to GSP.
Good points. If Southwest entered the Greenville market there are a number of locales to draw passengers from. Southwest is entering several new markets this year, Boston being one of them which really surprises me. Southwest is already serving Providence and Manchester NH. as well as Hartford. All of these airports are within 1 to 1 1/2 hours from Boston. I know when Southwest entered Providence about 10 years ago now, it greatly increased the importance of that airport.
Southwest is ending Norfolk to Las Vegas flights and cutting back on its flights from that city to BWI. Im guessing Southwest is needing its aircraft in more profitable cities and routes. Perhaps there is hope for Greenville to attract the airline in 2010 or 11.
Good points. If Southwest entered the Greenville market there are a number of locales to draw passengers from. Southwest is entering several new markets this year, Boston being one of them which really surprises me. Southwest is already serving Providence and Manchester NH. as well as Hartford. All of these airports are within 1 to 1 1/2 hours from Boston. I know when Southwest entered Providence about 10 years ago now, it greatly increased the importance of that airport.
Southwest is ending Norfolk to Las Vegas flights and cutting back on its flights from that city to BWI. Im guessing Southwest is needing its aircraft in more profitable cities and routes. Perhaps there is hope for Greenville to attract the airline in 2010 or 11.
Boston is a new market but they won't be very dominating there, e.g. most local routes (OH, Pittsburgh, etc.) require a Baltimore connection. No flights between these routes: Boston-Philadelphia, Boston-LGA (already oversaturated with shuttles, Amtrak and 4 hours driving distance roughly anyways). From Philadelphia, one has to go to Providence or Manchester, with a rental car needed, then drive into Boston still, so US Airways and United, and Amtrak to some extent, won't have direct competition from a low cost airline on that route.
Between Norfolk and BWI, its driving distance (4 hours), but of course people use BWI for the northeast connections. However, JetBlue has Northeast connections to JFK and BOS from Richmond, so there is an alternate low cost carrier around and I'm not surprised in the possible elimination of flights just based on connections, if origin and destination traffic is low as it likely is given that it's only 4 hours drive and Norfolk is a small city. Assuming direct ends between Norfolk and Vegas, Norfolk to Vegas would just require a Midway stop, which imo is fine on a Southwest flight, as west coast flights are long.
Last edited by subwayfan; 06-24-2009 at 01:22 AM..
Independence Air was a farce from day one. They used to be a feeder for United Airlines, and when United wanted to reduce the fees they paid for the feeder flights to IAD (Dulles airport), the company gave United the finger and said "get lost, we'll just carry the passengers and keep all their ticket revenue for ourselves".
Granted, United is a crummy airline, but what Independence Air tried was guaranteed business suicide. You simply cannot convert yourself from a IAD feeder for a major airline into an independent airline with a hub at the same airport, IAD, overnight!
It was a stupid idea from day 1 and has raised people's expectations of discount air service and made it more difficult for real discount airlines (like Southwest) to come here because they have to deal with the idiocy of Independent Air's "legacy".
I never flew on Independence Air because I had no need to fly to IAD, so don't think that this is some kind of personal gripe with Independence Air. I just wish that everyone knew the history behind this so that discount airlines could come to GSP without people saying "but but but I remember when Independence Airlines charged only $59 to fly to IAD" because their business plan was horrible and was basically just to get back at United Airlines.
Interesting assessment..... got one that may have been worse.. AIR SOUTH with Columbia as the Hub. Bob Coble still has nightmares about this one.
Who would use high speed rail service? And where do you expect it to go to? I am truly curious, as I have a really hard time imagining that enough people would use it to make it cost effective.
I think it would be great to have high speed rail to Atlanta, however it would be very costly to build.
Who would use high speed rail service? And where do you expect it to go to? I am truly curious, as I have a really hard time imagining that enough people would use it to make it cost effective.
High speed rail service to Charlotte, Atlanta, Columbia and Coastal destinations - Charleston. Admittedly, one with more demographic data would need to assess the viability. I'm not sure that we would have the population necessary to justify the costs like the major metro areas do. I know I've riden the trains in NY/NJ and other NE areas and it was a terrific and cost effective option. Many factors would play into the decision-making: what is the total potential population that could be served; what portion of the population would use the system; destination cities best targeted; return on investment; environmental impact; economic development impact, etc.... Would better transportation options enhance our economic development opps, decrease the impact of more autos on our freeways and lessen the need for expanding existing freeway systems in our state? Lots to consider and the folks over at Clemson are equipped to handle the feasibility studies. I'm just sayin' it would be very nice to hope the rail like I do in NYC! It's easy, cheap and safe.
High speed rail service to Charlotte, Atlanta, Columbia and Coastal destinations - Charleston. Admittedly, one with more demographic data would need to assess the viability. I'm not sure that we would have the population necessary to justify the costs like the major metro areas do. I know I've riden the trains in NY/NJ and other NE areas and it was a terrific and cost effective option. Many factors would play into the decision-making: what is the total potential population that could be served; what portion of the population would use the system; destination cities best targeted; return on investment; environmental impact; economic development impact, etc.... Would better transportation options enhance our economic development opps, decrease the impact of more autos on our freeways and lessen the need for expanding existing freeway systems in our state? Lots to consider and the folks over at Clemson are equipped to handle the feasibility studies. I'm just sayin' it would be very nice to hope the rail like I do in NYC! It's easy, cheap and safe.
I for one would definitely use the train if we had one here. Nice to lay back and let someone else do the driving.
Who would use high speed rail service? And where do you expect it to go to? I am truly curious, as I have a really hard time imagining that enough people would use it to make it cost effective.
Oh, lets see I don't know maybe ME as in I as in G-MAN430.
Another low fare possibility if Southwest passes it up, is either JetBlue (via JFK) or AirTran. AirTran recently started service in Atlantic City, Allentown, Harrisburg and some other small marketsm submarkets of larger markets. I don't why Greenville is passed over, given its size, other than the reason being its proximity to Atlanta.
A Greenville to Atlanta route would be nonsense given the proximity, so routes have to originate to/from other cities. The possibility might be AirTran running service from Baltimore to Greenville, and changing the existing Baltimore to Charlotte route, to Philadelphia to Charlotte (which would also bring affordable fare flying to Charlotte from Jersey...where its more needed than MD to Charlotte which is driving distance closer). and then, possibly eliminating flights from Philadelphia to Atlanta route to balance it. This would also indirectly help the Atlantic City to Atlanta route which they just recently started, by shifting just a few flight around as I'm sure now Atlanta routing might be oversaturated from Philadelphia area, with ACY service to Atlanta as well.
Many people (think Philly, and extending from North Jersey and NY) would rather do this than US Airways or Continental shuttles (uncomfortable flights in small planes and expensive), at least within the East coast.
And for the Central US and West Coast connections, a flight from Greenville to Milwaukee would do. Milwaukee is one of AirTran's focus cities.
It'd also make sense for AirTran to get into Greenville (and not overlook the market) to get a leg up rather than letting Southwest come into the Southeast, to chip away marketshare from AirTran (via all the Atanta flights), from a competitive standpoint.
Last edited by subwayfan; 06-28-2009 at 08:41 PM..
Another low fare possibility if Southwest passes it up, is either JetBlue (via JFK) or AirTran. AirTran recently started service in Atlantic City, Allentown, Harrisburg and some other small marketsm submarkets of larger markets. I don't why Greenville is passed over, given its size, other than the reason being its proximity to Atlanta.
A Greenville to Atlanta route would be nonsense given the proximity, so routes have to originate to/from other cities. The possibility might be AirTran running service from Baltimore to Greenville, and changing the existing Baltimore to Charlotte route, to Philadelphia to Charlotte (which would also bring affordable fare flying to Charlotte from Jersey...where its more needed than MD to Charlotte which is driving distance closer). and then, possibly eliminating flights from Philadelphia to Atlanta route to balance it. This would also indirectly help the Atlantic City to Atlanta route which they just recently started, by shifting just a few flight around as I'm sure now Atlanta routing might be oversaturated from Philadelphia area, with ACY service to Atlanta as well.
Many people (think Philly, and extending from North Jersey and NY) would rather do this than US Airways or Continental shuttles (uncomfortable flights in small planes and expensive), at least within the East coast.
And for the Central US and West Coast connections, a flight from Greenville to Milwaukee would do. Milwaukee is one of AirTran's focus cities.
It'd also make sense for AirTran to get into Greenville (and not overlook the market) to get a leg up rather than letting Southwest come into the Southeast, to chip away marketshare from AirTran (via all the Atanta flights), from a competitive standpoint.
Southwest seems like our best chance to land a low-cost carrier with many destinations, especially since the closest airports to GSP served by Southwest include Raleigh, Birmingham, and Jacksonville. I am guessing Southwest would open up direct flights to BWI, and possible RDU and JAX as well - and perhaps others I have not considered.
If AirTran provides service to GSP, they will probably route all planes through ATL (since that is their hub). They began providing service from Charleston (CHS) about a year ago, and all of those flights go through ATL. Plus, many of Delta's flights from GSP connect through Atlanta also. So the proximity of ATL to GSP would not seem to be a deterrent for AirTran, nor be a reason for them to offer flights from GSP to anywhere but ATL. I would still welcome AirTran to GSP, but much prefer Southwest.
Getting Southwest is wishful thinking folks. Best hope is to land Air Tran.
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