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Old 04-10-2012, 02:57 PM
Status: "happy again, no longer catless! t...." (set 6 days ago)
 
Location: Cushing OK
14,422 posts, read 16,686,996 times
Reputation: 16430

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
I'm glad you said this, because I am the same way. Especially with women who SCREAM. Even when I see it on TV, it bugs the heck out of me.

Not a big mystery--I know it's a reaction to having a mother who loved to play drama queen. No one else in the house was allowed to demonstrate emotions too much emotion, or we were feeling sorry for ourselves, or being overly sensitive. But she would throw the back of her hand to her forehead, run down the hall, and fling herself on her bed, sobbing, to get attention at the least little thing. I swear she grew up watching too many 1940's movies.

A friend of mine used to work as a greeter in a funeral parlor. He used to see a lot of the same drama you saw in the vet office. Women throwing themselves on the body of their husband in the casket. YUCK. Get a grip on yourself, and have some dignity.

However, I really noticed my intolerance on September 11, 2001. As most of you know, I was in the north tower when AA11 slammed into us. We had made it down--I was almost out. We'd emerged from the stairwell onto the mezzanine--a sort of balcony area that ran around and above the lobby. There was a line of people stretched from the stairwell to a door leading out to a side arm of the Plaza (area in the center of the complex). A few minutes earlier, around the 4th floor, we'd heard a huge explosion and felt the building shake and everyone held their breath for a moment and then proceeded. Later, I realized this was the second plane hitting Two. But right now, I didn't know why the line of people had stopped and no one was moving out the door, and I just wanted to get the hell out of that building.

I grabbed my friend's hand and ran around the line of stopped people and went out the door, and as soon as I stepped out, there are two women SCREAMING, just SCREAMING at the top of their lungs, no words, just screams. I turned to my friend and said, "Do they HAVE to scream like that?" I was then distracted by the site of a poor little bird dying on the concrete, quivering. I can see it clear as day--brown bird with tealish-colors on its underside. I felt so bad for this bird (I would see a lot more dead birds shortly after.) Then my friend said, "Oh...look at the Plaza." The Plaza was covered with all kinds of stuff, including burning airplane parts, fabric, luggage, pieces of human beings...

And that's why the women were screaming. Later I realized they must have just seen the second plane hit, and felt a little bad at my reaction. But man, don't stand there and scream in a situation like this. RUN. You can have your meltdown later, when you are safe.
Thank you for telling your story. I can't imagine being in that situation, but then, in an abstract way, I can too.

There had been studies done of survival behavior. About ten percent simply, utterly freeze. The can't move. They can't be dragged away. They die.

About ten percent do exactly the opposite. They instantly fall into a clarity and perception of the situation. The drive to escape is not just dominant, but calm. They'll see the hallway someone in panic won't. They'll sense things which most can't. On planes, people have described knowing they can't go down the isle, its crowded, and climbed over the seats. It can aslo be troubling later on, when they think how they survived while pushing anything, including anyone else, out of the way. But they can make a trail those in the uppper part of the 80 percent can follow.

The rest is gradiations. Some will come if offered a direction. Some have to be pulled along. Survival depends on where on the scale they stand, where they are, and if there is someone to lead around.

Thing is, there is no corriliation between lifestyle, age, personality, or most of what we'd expect. You know your one who can shut out the noise when you shut out the noise.

For some who can't function in an emergency, hysteria is a response too. It's the shock they are responding to, and can't pull themselves out of it.

The people on the stairway proceeding in orderly fashion were the upper of the 80 percent with some of the ten percent and some lucky of the lower down who had someone to make them.

That scene in the lobby, it must have been horrific. Maybe they screamed because they were near the bottom and escape. Maybe because they were still operating in some way on emotion.

I must have been very hard with mom, like the eggshells were scattered everywhere. Repeat hysteria very often has to do with control. My experience is with the reverse, the shut down, I'm going to my room and don't talk to me type, but its about the same thing. The eggshells are the same too. I think it may have to do with how its learned to manipulate in childhood.

If it's an emergency you can do something about I've found I'm the shut down type. I still can revert real quickly after living in it for months. But when my dear, sweet dog didn't come when I got home, and my door was shut (she was mostly blind and it wasn't supposed to be so she could get inside) and I found her in the pond I just screamed. Different situation. She was already gone, but it was as if she was telling me to come to the pond.

On reflection, I think when my mom died, (and we were so close it felt like half of me was torn away) if I'd have cried and not kept it in for Dad it would have been better. But I did. About a year after she died, I was at work and just started sobbing and had to go home. The wall broke. I envy those who can cry at death, and mourn, since eventually you have to and holding it in is like letting a poison keep brewing. Its so much harder to recover if your afraid to grieve. It took me years and I still cry on the date of her death (same date my dog drowned, too, so I mourn for both).

Crying, screaming, grieving is not about the dead, nor any of our rituals to it, but about the living and saying good bye and beginning the process of letting go.
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Old 04-10-2012, 03:08 PM
 
Location: Up above the world so high!
45,270 posts, read 86,054,517 times
Reputation: 39670
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oleg Bach View Post
Christians who cry at funerals should be smacked...if you understand the faith...the deceased is not dead --and you insult the faith with this show of panic and disbelief...I like funerals..
I have noticed on several threads now that you sure have some unusual opinions....

The Bible says "Jesus wept".

If it was okay for him to do it, I'm sure it's okay for us to do it

It is certainly not an insult to anyone's faith to cry or panic.

These are human emotions, and understandable ones given a wide variety of circumstances.

Even the most faith-filled person without a single doubt that they will see their loved one again is allowed to grieve and cry over the loss of that person in the here and now.
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Old 04-10-2012, 03:14 PM
 
Location: Florida
4,081 posts, read 3,064,397 times
Reputation: 8607
Hysteria over dropping paint? Absurd.
Over a pet dying? IMO, it's overkill, but I'm not really a "pet person"
Over one's child dying? Appropriate

YMMV, of course, and there's a lot of middle ground.
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Old 04-10-2012, 03:22 PM
Status: "happy again, no longer catless! t...." (set 6 days ago)
 
Location: Cushing OK
14,422 posts, read 16,686,996 times
Reputation: 16430
Quote:
Originally Posted by jasper12 View Post
Children deal with grief differently than adults. They have unresolved anger about being "left". And often act out physically. I did grief therapy with kids for many years. It was volunteer work, that helped me too.
Not just kids. I was in my late 20's when we lost mom. She was very ill and would not see a doctor. She had to sit up and sleep that way to breath.

And while Dad crumbled and said I had be 'be Mom for him', a part of me was very very angry at her, for not taking care of herself and just plain for dying on us. It wasn't rational. I would go into her room in the day but I could feel she was there at night and it wasn't violated by either of us. I'd feel like she was near, that she'd come to my room at night and was afraid to look. I don't know why, if it was just because I'd have to acknowledge she was gone or if she'd see that I blamed her for dying.

A year to the day she died, she was gone. Both my dad and I had a dream of her coming and saying good bye. She didn't think we were ready. But then the real mourning started.

I'm not one who easily expresses anger, but I carry it. My ex who destroyed the family will never ever ever be forgiven, and it would be a very bad moment for him if I did agree to see him one more last time, maybe for both of us.
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Old 04-10-2012, 03:33 PM
 
Location: Austin
2,173 posts, read 2,763,076 times
Reputation: 2183
Here are the rules:

Normal behavior under normal circumstances=normal
abnormal behavior under normal circumstances=abnormal
normal behavior under abnormal circumstances=abnormal
abnormal behavior under abnormal circumstances=normal
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Old 04-10-2012, 05:50 PM
 
Location: Up above the world so high!
45,270 posts, read 86,054,517 times
Reputation: 39670
Quote:
Originally Posted by redvelvet709 View Post
Here are the rules:

Normal behavior under normal circumstances=normal
abnormal behavior under normal circumstances=abnormal
normal behavior under abnormal circumstances=abnormal
abnormal behavior under abnormal circumstances=normal
Yep
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Old 04-11-2012, 06:39 AM
 
18,856 posts, read 30,455,105 times
Reputation: 25990
I don't agree with the "rules". There is nothing "abnormal" about behaving normally in an "abnormal" situation.

The reason is, things happen, that our out of our control, like 9/11, like a death of a loved one, like being a victim of a brutal crime, and those who have developed coping skills and resilency will be able to react calmly with those occurrances, much more effectively, than people who drop to the floor and start screaming. That is not "normal".
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Old 04-11-2012, 07:00 AM
Status: "Even better than okay" (set 9 days ago)
 
Location: Coastal New Jersey
51,242 posts, read 50,519,955 times
Reputation: 60114
Quote:
Originally Posted by nightbird47 View Post
Thank you for telling your story. I can't imagine being in that situation, but then, in an abstract way, I can too.

There had been studies done of survival behavior. About ten percent simply, utterly freeze. The can't move. They can't be dragged away. They die.

About ten percent do exactly the opposite. They instantly fall into a clarity and perception of the situation. The drive to escape is not just dominant, but calm. They'll see the hallway someone in panic won't. They'll sense things which most can't. On planes, people have described knowing they can't go down the isle, its crowded, and climbed over the seats. It can aslo be troubling later on, when they think how they survived while pushing anything, including anyone else, out of the way. But they can make a trail those in the uppper part of the 80 percent can follow.

The rest is gradiations. Some will come if offered a direction. Some have to be pulled along. Survival depends on where on the scale they stand, where they are, and if there is someone to lead around.

Thing is, there is no corriliation between lifestyle, age, personality, or most of what we'd expect. You know your one who can shut out the noise when you shut out the noise.

For some who can't function in an emergency, hysteria is a response too. It's the shock they are responding to, and can't pull themselves out of it.

The people on the stairway proceeding in orderly fashion were the upper of the 80 percent with some of the ten percent and some lucky of the lower down who had someone to make them.

That scene in the lobby, it must have been horrific. Maybe they screamed because they were near the bottom and escape. Maybe because they were still operating in some way on emotion.

I must have been very hard with mom, like the eggshells were scattered everywhere. Repeat hysteria very often has to do with control. My experience is with the reverse, the shut down, I'm going to my room and don't talk to me type, but its about the same thing. The eggshells are the same too. I think it may have to do with how its learned to manipulate in childhood.

If it's an emergency you can do something about I've found I'm the shut down type. I still can revert real quickly after living in it for months. But when my dear, sweet dog didn't come when I got home, and my door was shut (she was mostly blind and it wasn't supposed to be so she could get inside) and I found her in the pond I just screamed. Different situation. She was already gone, but it was as if she was telling me to come to the pond.

On reflection, I think when my mom died, (and we were so close it felt like half of me was torn away) if I'd have cried and not kept it in for Dad it would have been better. But I did. About a year after she died, I was at work and just started sobbing and had to go home. The wall broke. I envy those who can cry at death, and mourn, since eventually you have to and holding it in is like letting a poison keep brewing. Its so much harder to recover if your afraid to grieve. It took me years and I still cry on the date of her death (same date my dog drowned, too, so I mourn for both).

Crying, screaming, grieving is not about the dead, nor any of our rituals to it, but about the living and saying good bye and beginning the process of letting go.
Very interesting. I've participated in evacuation studies and psych studies since 9/11, and I am interested in seeing the results. The coworker I was with seemed to freeze. I yanked her by the hand and dragged her into the stairs. Others did not seem to understand the urgency, which perplexes me, unless they could not feel what we felt in their location. Long-time coworkers, people I knew for more than 20 years, are dead because they stayed in their offices way too long.

Just to be clear, since you seemed to have missed this part in my post, I KNOW exactly why the women just outside the door (NOT in the lobby--we did NOT make it down to the lobby--as explained, we came out on the mezzanine and they were at the exit to the Plaza) were screaming. UA175 had just slammed into Two WTC minutes before. Of course, I had absolutely no way of knowing that at the time. But, once i looked over to the Plaza and saw the burning plane parts and its contents strewn all over plus the memory of the explosion and shaking when I was in the stairwell, I was able to later put that together.
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Old 04-11-2012, 07:15 AM
 
Location: Islip,NY
16,942 posts, read 19,680,616 times
Reputation: 17199
Quote:
Originally Posted by redvelvet709 View Post
Here are the rules:

Normal behavior under normal circumstances=normal
abnormal behavior under normal circumstances=abnormal
normal behavior under abnormal circumstances=abnormal
abnormal behavior under abnormal circumstances=normal
No one else but YOU has the right to decide if your behavior is normal or abnormal. Throw those RULES out of the window. Are these your rules? Everyone reacts different and what is normal to one person maybe abnormal to another. But no one has that right to make judgements.
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Old 04-11-2012, 08:04 AM
 
Location: Up above the world so high!
45,270 posts, read 86,054,517 times
Reputation: 39670
Quote:
Originally Posted by jasper12 View Post
I don't agree with the "rules". There is nothing "abnormal" about behaving normally in an "abnormal" situation.

The reason is, things happen, that our out of our control, like 9/11, like a death of a loved one, like being a victim of a brutal crime, and those who have developed coping skills and resilency will be able to react calmly with those occurrances, much more effectively, than people who drop to the floor and start screaming. That is not "normal".
Sorry honey, but there really is.

Behaving normally in an abnormal situation is usually called "being in denial".
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