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Old 08-11-2012, 05:30 PM
 
Location: The Woods
16,455 posts, read 21,476,969 times
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I see no rational, scientific explanation for the most profound of these NDE's: the ones where people can describe what's happening in other rooms while dead, while they are neither there nor are they being suspended from the ceiling in that room. Scientists have recreated the least significant portions of NDE's (namely, tunnels of light, dreams of long-dead relatives, etc.). They can't recreate the most extreme NDE's, which tells me they are quite real and only explainable by there being something after death.
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Old 08-12-2012, 02:20 PM
 
Location: St. Louis
9,457 posts, read 16,416,956 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
I've done extensive reading on NDE's and watched countless videos on Youtube from the experts and those who have experienced. I used to believe in them but as I analyzed the testimonies I gradually came to the conclusion that they are indeed mind induced. I really want to believe in them and I do believe in an afterlife, but I don't believe these people who return are actually experiencing anything but hallucinations brought on by brain chemicals that draw on the subconscious portion of the mind where memories, wishes, hopes, etc are stored. The wide diversity of actual experiences is what makes me think they are not real. One neurosurgeon describes being on a butterfly wing and looking down on a beautiful valley with thousands of butterflies flying along with his. Another describes walking along a path leading to a mausoleum-like structure. And the visions of seeing departed relatives seem to me to be merely subconscious wishes and hopes of being reunited with loved ones that have departed. Not to mention that the vast majority of people who "die" don't even have an experience, which raises even more questions.
I have also done some extensive reading on these issues, b/c for some reason it is a huge interest of mine. I'm willing to believe that brain chemicals are responsible in part for the experience, but I don't know how to explain away the fact that some people see dead relatives that they had never met and can then give details about certain people when they come back. I would think that the fact that people have such different experiences would make a better case for an afterlife than the brain chemical explanation b/c our bodies would behave in a very similar manner but our souls would have quite different fates. I believe that the fact that some people have no NDE at all is an indication that they get to sleep for awhile in the afterlife and that could be for various reasons--life was so hard that they need the "rest" or they didn't believe in anything so they sleep--it might too painful to confront an afterlife that you never believed in--I don't say that with any judgment at all b/c I'm not one who believes that lack of belief will automatically send you to hell, just back a few steps. But what does it matter what any of us believe? The truth is the truth, no matter what we believe and we can't even imagine what is in store for us.

I have no fear of death itself but I do fear the process by which I'll get there and I'm looking forward to the ultimate journey but I'm in no hurry to get there. I also got a glimpse of my mother in a dream shortly after she died. She was filled with light and so real only better and yet I felt her more than I saw her. I wasn't sure why she came to me as we were never all that close in life, yet I was very much there for her in the end and I guess she knew that.

An interesting sidenote for those who own a Bible: I read somewhere that the ancient Hebrews would say that a person "went to the belly of the fish" as a nice way to say that someone died. I immediately thought of Noah, so I read that story with an eye to the idea that Noah had a NDE and I think that was it exactly. Basically Noah got eaten by the fish b/c he was not following the mission that God sent him on and while he was in there he was imbued with a renewed sense of mission--something that many NDEers also describe. Interesting to read it with new eyes and a lesson in not taking everything in the Bible as literal. Think how it will be for future people to try to translate some of our idioms.
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Old 08-15-2012, 10:39 AM
 
Location: California
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I think they're hallucinations. When someone is apt to die, of course they will be thinking of all the ones who passed previously. It is our nature to wonder about life after death, and wonder what happened to our loved ones. So when our time is close, we instinctively start to dwell on lost loved ones. When we start the dying process, hallucinations begin with what is fresh in our minds.
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Old 08-17-2012, 11:09 PM
 
16,487 posts, read 20,342,651 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coldPlay View Post
I think they're hallucinations. When someone is apt to die, of course they will be thinking of all the ones who passed previously. It is our nature to wonder about life after death, and wonder what happened to our loved ones. So when our time is close, we instinctively start to dwell on lost loved ones. When we start the dying process, hallucinations begin with what is fresh in our minds.
Then how do you explain people that have died and can tell you everything in detail that was said and happened in the operating room, or the hospital room, or where they were when they died?
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Old 08-18-2012, 12:20 AM
 
Location: Northridge/Porter Ranch, Calif.
22,152 posts, read 26,620,787 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coldPlay View Post
I think they're hallucinations. When someone is apt to die, of course they will be thinking of all the ones who passed previously. It is our nature to wonder about life after death, and wonder what happened to our loved ones. So when our time is close, we instinctively start to dwell on lost loved ones. When we start the dying process, hallucinations begin with what is fresh in our minds.
Usually, when people hallucinate, it involves experiences and events here on Earth, not about the afterlife or deceased relatives.
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Old 08-18-2012, 02:41 AM
 
Location: California
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Curious about an experience I had a couple of years ago. I'm strong and healthy but there was a period of time where I was very sad about some family issues. It felt like I had given up hope and will to live. Much of my time was spent sleeping, as I did not want to be awake. Then I dreamt that I died.

I recall looking down at my body on the bed and how empty and light it was. I don't recall touching it, but do recall knowing how it was so light. I wasn't sad at all. It was like being in an unfamiliar place. I looked around like I was stunned and my head was in a fog. Then I felt sucked back into my body and I woke up with vivid memory of it.

I'm fairly young and healthy, and live a very healthy lifestyle. So the only thing working here was the sadness. This is something I can't explain. The way I look at life now, though I'd never do anything to cause myself to leave this realm, I'm not really afraid of death. Not at all.

Last edited by coldPlay; 08-18-2012 at 02:55 AM..
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Old 08-18-2012, 07:35 AM
 
Location: St. Louis
9,457 posts, read 16,416,956 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coldPlay View Post
I think they're hallucinations. When someone is apt to die, of course they will be thinking of all the ones who passed previously. It is our nature to wonder about life after death, and wonder what happened to our loved ones. So when our time is close, we instinctively start to dwell on lost loved ones. When we start the dying process, hallucinations begin with what is fresh in our minds.
And how does that explain how it is that people see dead relatives that they never even met or who died when they were still too young to remember? I have no doubt that my father will be there to greet my dd's when they die though he was gone more than 10 years before they were born. When my older dd was born, she looked just like my father--it was uncanny. That look slowly disappeared over the next few days and I knew that he had come back to say hello and to put his stamp of approval on this child. I've often wondered about this though as my younger dd is much more like him in temperament and every other way. He would have adored these girls and who knows--maybe he picked them out special just for me.

I read a book once about genetic heritage and he had an interesting analogy about how language changes over time, which isn't really what our discussion is about but I thought it would fit here anyway. He said that what if you had a big long table at dinner and every member of every generation of your family going back to the beginning was there and a son sat by his father, who had his father on his other side and going down to the beginning. Each person would be able to converse with the people sitting on each side of them and probably even the ones on the other side of them but as you went on down the line it would get much more difficult. Well I don't know why I brought that up except that it's kind of a cool fantasy about our dead relatives and maybe we'll get to do that in the afterlife.
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Old 08-18-2012, 09:20 AM
 
Location: The Great State of Arkansas
5,981 posts, read 15,903,769 times
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Folks, while I understand what is being said, let's remember this is the Grief forum and people come here with heavy emotional loads. This isn't the right place to debate what happens after death, or at the time of death, or how it all comes together; hallucination or actual experience...basically, none of us here know for sure, we are only surmising and stating what we believe in our hearts.

Debating the afterlife or NDE belongs in some other forum. Let's allow everyone their beliefs here without judgement, scientific evidence pro or con, or telling the person they are wrong, shall we? Thank you for understanding and for participating.
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Old 08-18-2012, 11:25 AM
 
Location: SWFL
21,439 posts, read 18,155,050 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam I Am View Post
Folks, while I understand what is being said, let's remember this is the Grief forum and people come here with heavy emotional loads. This isn't the right place to debate what happens after death, or at the time of death, or how it all comes together; hallucination or actual experience...basically, none of us here know for sure, we are only surmising and stating what we believe in our hearts.

Debating the afterlife or NDE belongs in some other forum. Let's allow everyone their beliefs here without judgement, scientific evidence pro or con, or telling the person they are wrong, shall we? Thank you for understanding and for participating.
mod cut

I could tell this final time around my husband was seeing things I could not. I kick myself that I never interferred with his staring up at the ceiling and ask what he was seeing. I just let him be because the look in his eyes was of listening. He died that night.

Last edited by Sam I Am; 08-18-2012 at 02:58 PM.. Reason: can't comment on moderation in the forums, sorry...but thanks anyway!
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Old 08-20-2012, 04:20 PM
 
Location: St. Louis
9,457 posts, read 16,416,956 times
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Originally Posted by tamiznluv View Post
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I could tell this final time around my husband was seeing things I could not. I kick myself that I never interferred with his staring up at the ceiling and ask what he was seeing. I just let him be because the look in his eyes was of listening. He died that night.
I think you did the right thing. After all, what was more important: that you satisfy your curiosity or that you let him go peacefully and without interference? You will know the answer someday yourself and it will be so amazing and beautiful.
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