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Old 07-18-2013, 10:58 AM
 
413 posts, read 744,577 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaryleeII View Post
Many years ago we had a friend who was constantly trying to kill himself. Finally he succeeded. Ok, at his memorial service, we said that was the only time the rest of us could be together in a group and not worry what he was going to do! He wasn't a close friend, just a guy in a group I hung with. Honestly, if suicide was his main goal, well, then, get it over with so the rest of us can stop worrying about him!
I have lost dear friends and mentors to suicide. "Get it over with" is not the
sentiment I had when they made suicide threats or attempts. Their desire
was to STOP their own hurt and the hurt they caused others. Sometimes
after attempts medicine would soothe their souls and they got a little
more hope that things would be better. The voices in their hearts telling
them it would never be better, people would be happier without them
finally won out. Even with brokenness, I'd rather have them here
again. Was it uncomfortable, scary, and "inconvenient' going to
the hospital when they were ill? Yes, somewhat. But their
good hearts and good spirits when the medicine worked
were just glimmers of what they could be. I'd spend any money
and any time to save a friend from the H#$@ of mental illness.


So yes, I'd definitely mourn one who died from suicide. I still mourn one from 15 years
ago.

 
Old 07-18-2013, 12:48 PM
 
8,440 posts, read 10,769,752 times
Reputation: 6206
Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359 View Post
A timely thread.

On Saturday, I was returning to my home from the grocery store and I came upon a horrific sight, I've never seen before and I know I'll never see again. A man had literally parked his car in the middle of the road and had gotten out of his car. He than shot himself in the head. As it turned out, I was the first person to come upon this awful scene which I shall not describe other than to say there was blood everywhere.

I think of the trauma this man caused his family. There had been an argument and the family very quickly arrived at the scene after I did and listening to their screams and cries was almost intolerable. I had to restrain several family members who wanted to view the body.

I think of the trauma this man caused the first responders who have to clean up after this mess.

I think of the trauma he caused a local physician who assessed his vital signs and determined that nothing could be done.

I think of the trauma he caused the neighborhood who forever more will likely remember what happened at that point on the road at the entrance to where they all live.

Others can debate whether a memorial service should be held for such a person. I simply wish I could forget all about him and what I saw. I don't think those images will leave my mind until the day that I die.
MarkG,
It was good of you to restrain family members so they will always remember a stranger cared enough about them to try to help ease their pain immediately. It will matter in their recovery down the road.

You also thought of others such as first responders and the neighborhood residents etc.

If someone I loved committed suicide in the manner you described above I would hope someone like you was around to help and not judge.

Some of us have seen some horrible things in our work and some have witnessed things they never anticipated doing routine errands, shopping etc.

Your life will forever be changed given what you saw and those you tried to protect from the scene you saw. When you struggle remembering all you saw perhaps you'll think of how the survivors are struggling with graphic details while mourning someone they loved.

I appreciate your wisdom of knowing when a life has been lost so many others are involved. How wise you are to know there is a time to not comment further.

Thank you for your efforts to make a very sad situation better by trying ti help the family not judge them!

MSR
 
Old 07-18-2013, 01:54 PM
 
Location: The New England part of Ohio
17,767 posts, read 21,944,619 times
Reputation: 45114
Quote:
Originally Posted by zentropa View Post
Yes. He died from a disease. Not dissimilar from a heart attack or complications from diabetes. I hope you feel fortunate that you will never know what his sort of suffering was like.

You may be surprised to find that his family feels a sense of relief that his trauma is over and he is at peace.

Exactly. He deserves a memorial and he deserves to be grieved. His illness was every bit as real as any cancer.

I can't believe that in this day and age people are actually debating this!

For everyone who is being judgmental, I wish that you could experience one hour of the mental anguish that this person endured before he took his life.
 
Old 07-18-2013, 02:03 PM
 
13,051 posts, read 12,572,566 times
Reputation: 37453
OP, if you died tomorrow, one could just as likely ask the question of whether someone so devoid of compassion or the spirit of friendship deserved to be memorialized, whether someone who felt only derision and scorn at the passing of one of his supposed friends should be graced with any sort of recognition.

Memorial services are for friends and family of the deceased. You are neither. Stay home.
 
Old 07-18-2013, 03:06 PM
 
Location: Lexington, Kentucky
6,311 posts, read 3,620,120 times
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I know that you and his family have been through so much.
But unless you have experienced clinical depression, and mental illness...it's really difficult to understand the extreme pain that comes with this disease. He was just suffering and in so much pain, that he was just looking for a way out from it, and the horrible agony, that he didn't stop to think of the pain that he was inflicting on his loved ones from this act. I know that it all seems so senseless, and it seems selfish,but just remember this is a disease, just like any other disease, and sometimes it is fatal...but ofcourse, friends and loved ones have a right to mourn....just because the grief and mourning was of his own doing doesn't make everyone's emotions any less real. Try not to think of this as his last selfish act, try to realize that he was a very sick person, and he fell victim himself, to the disease that he had. In time, it will become easier,
but don't deny yourself or his family, the rite to mourn.
 
Old 07-18-2013, 03:24 PM
Status: "Should have been a cowgirl!" (set 15 days ago)
 
Location: CO/UT/AZ/NM Catch me if you can!
4,323 posts, read 4,006,845 times
Reputation: 9569
"For whom the bell tolls," a poem by John Donne

No man is an island,
Entire of itself.
Each is a piece of the continent,
A part of the main.
If a clod be washed away by the sea,
Europe is the less.
As well as if a promontory were.
As well as if a manor of thine own
Or of thine friend's were.
Each man's death diminishes me,
For I am involved in mankind.
Therefore, send not to know
For whom the bell tolls,
It tolls for thee.
 
Old 07-18-2013, 03:37 PM
 
15,871 posts, read 13,543,762 times
Reputation: 35313
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaryleeII View Post
Many years ago we had a friend who was constantly trying to kill himself. Finally he succeeded. Ok, at his memorial service, we said that was the only time the rest of us could be together in a group and not worry what he was going to do! He wasn't a close friend, just a guy in a group I hung with. Honestly, if suicide was his main goal, well, then, get it over with so the rest of us can stop worrying about him!
People do not take their own lives because they want to DIE. They do it to end the chaos and pain they suffer every minute of their lives. If there was any other way to stop it, they would certainly not choose the method that ends everything.
 
Old 07-18-2013, 04:30 PM
 
Location: garland
1,595 posts, read 1,587,534 times
Reputation: 1969
You don't go to the memorial/service for him. You go for the family. If you don't care about the family, then stay home.
 
Old 07-18-2013, 04:30 PM
 
Location: Tennessee
21,234 posts, read 15,545,359 times
Reputation: 24179
I briefly went to the visitation last night. I was there for about an hour of the allotted two. While the weather was bad, I was initially surprised at how few people showed up compared to the funerals of an uncle and my grandfather. Most of the attendees were elderly and were probably from the church. Outside of the immediate circle of friends, I saw maybe five people I knew there.

I started thinking about it and his social circle had to be really small. Since he never worked, he had no work acquaintances or friends. He did go to college, but dropped out six or seven years ago and the school is about five hours away. Many of his friends growing up have since moved far away. He dated one woman for five years, then came out, and never had any long term relationships after that. He didn't have access to/participate in many of the normal social avenues that people typically use to make friends.

His father was making small talk with me about some photographs near where he (the dad) worked. I found it odd that he was making small talk like this under the circumstances. The mother, sister, and grandmothers were visibly torn up, but the dad was kind of casual about the whole thing. Maybe it just hasn't hit him yet.

I was talking with a mutual friend about the situation and he also thought the father and the son had a very poor relationship. I never remember the father and son doing anything together since I met the son in 6th grade. His dad was a good financial provider, but wasn't really "dad." I always got the impression that the father was very disappointed in his two children (the sister has a PhD from Carnegie-Mellon and is on the faculty of a local university, but has also had legal and substance abuse issues). The dad is an old fashioned, self-made man and his son ended up never working, was gay, didn't complete school, etc. His mom accepted him as gay, but I don't think the dad ever came around.

He also stated he thinks the deceased started going downhill at 18-19 when he went to school, got into illicit drugs, and started questioning his sexuality. Combine his homosexuality in a really conservative area with a dad who never seemed to accept him, I think it weighed heavily on him for years.

What's sad is that all of the things shown to celebrate his life were things he had done as a youth. There really was nothing to show from the last few years of any significance.

No matter how ill the deceased was or wasn't, he still made this decision - he wasn't compelled by anyone to take these actions. He was perfectly logical the day before and when he picked up the other person from the airport just a few hours before the suicide. He knew what he was doing. Even if it was an accident and not an intentional suicide, his type of behavior is inexcusable. "Good people" don't shoot themselves in the head or jump off bridges for attention. His actions have been incredibly selfish for years and show no regard for family, friends, and any innocent person that comes upon such a scene.
 
Old 07-18-2013, 04:40 PM
 
Location: The New England part of Ohio
17,767 posts, read 21,944,619 times
Reputation: 45114
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazee Cat Lady View Post
I know that you and his family have been through so much.
But unless you have experienced clinical depression, and mental illness...it's really difficult to understand the extreme pain that comes with this disease. He was just suffering and in so much pain, that he was just looking for a way out from it, and the horrible agony, that he didn't stop to think of the pain that he was inflicting on his loved ones from this act. I know that it all seems so senseless, and it seems selfish,but just remember this is a disease, just like any other disease, and sometimes it is fatal...but ofcourse, friends and loved ones have a right to mourn....just because the grief and mourning was of his own doing doesn't make everyone's emotions any less real. Try not to think of this as his last selfish act, try to realize that he was a very sick person, and he fell victim himself, to the disease that he had. In time, it will become easier,
but don't deny yourself or his family, the rite to mourn.

Actually, I have experienced neither. But I am compassionate. Not everyone has had cancer or a heart condition, but most folks are compassionate towards them.

I am compassionate towards anyone who is in so much pain that they feel that they must take their own life. I can't imagine being that sad.
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