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Old 02-22-2018, 09:57 AM
 
25,455 posts, read 23,279,677 times
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I believe we're all different, and we all react to situations like this differently....no one has a definate answer (s) as to how to deal with it, or suggestions.

I can't even begin to imagine....a neighbor lost his child...in an accident....it was so very painful to watch...and try to help, but there is nothing you can do but be there for them and just allow them to talk, allow them the anger, frustration....and all the up and down emotions.

I heard it said, that you never truly get over it, it's always there....but it does get a bit easier with time....and I believe those with a strong faith (I'm not talking about religion) get thru it in a better way. But, there is nothing that you can say or do that will fix this for them. It never will be fixed...

also think it's important in time, no matter how long it's been to allow those parents to speak of their departed child, just as we would speak about our own who are still with us? Honestly, I can't speak for anyone, but I just don't believe it ever goes away....and it's just as important for those who have lost a child, to be able to remember and share happy moments....even if it ends up in a good cry.
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Old 02-22-2018, 11:04 AM
 
Location: Somewhere in northern Alabama
16,851 posts, read 51,316,975 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tamiznluv View Post
The OP doesn't seem to have anything relative to anyone here so I think the OP is irrelevant. If a person who lost a loved one, they will ask the questions and seek comfort.
I think you misunderstand the purpose of the thread. While this forum has a preponderance of individual grief posts and wonderful responses, it is not limited to that narrow a focus. Many people come here and read the threads without posting, as a way of seeking out anonymous guidance for themselves or for someone they know. It is an open forum and serves more than those who actively participate.

The politics and other controversies forum is aimed at open discussion of all aspects of such horrible events, and the subject of grief quickly gets crushed in any discussion there, as the threads go in other directions. This is the only forum where those who seek advice on how to handle such grief can come and not be inundated with irrelevant and politicized issues.

I brought the topic forth because it is timely, and there are people here that are well equipped, better than most, to offer salient and powerful advice. As for their not being a specific immediate need within the forum members for consolation, I can't view that as a valid argument. I keep a first aid kit in my car even though I have no plan on being in a situation where I need it. I have health insurance even though I am relatively healthy. I considered how I would carry on if my wife died before me, and how she would carry on had I done so before her. Neither of us had the intent of dying at the time. Examining any potential situation and formulating solid responses beforehand is a hallmark of the intelligence of humanity.

The germ of my initial thought was that a group of psychologists and psychiatrists have laid claim to grief, and, if the media and schools are to be believed at all, created a niche market of grief counseling in school shootings and other deaths where children are involved. "Grief counseling will be available to all" is the standard line, and children and parents expected to make use of those resources.

While the intent of such interventions can be noble, they can also end up being counterproductive - by over-sensitizing children to death and causing them to view grief as a psychological "disease" that needs professional treatment. Given the financial limitations likely to be imposed upon such sessions, partial or inferior counseling is also a possibility.

Humanity has survived through centuries of horrible events and mass casualties and done so without such professional intervention. There is a wisdom in people. What the group of people here are singularly wise in and qualified to do is to suggest how grief can be handled - even in the confusion of group situations. People here can help show how to differentiate grief from outside forces, shock, or anger, or any of the other emotions that might be concurrent in the public eye, and point a sane and caring way through such a dark period. Unresolved grief is a destroyer of lives, sometimes fully as much as the initial deaths.

What I am requesting in the thread is an empathy for people who have to experience such losses, and considered words that may be of help.

Does that clarify the purpose of the thread for you? I recognize that it is slightly outside of the structured individual guidance you are used to seeing here.
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Old 02-22-2018, 11:33 AM
 
25,455 posts, read 23,279,677 times
Reputation: 15310
Quote:
Originally Posted by harry chickpea View Post
I think you misunderstand the purpose of the thread. While this forum has a preponderance of individual grief posts and wonderful responses, it is not limited to that narrow a focus. Many people come here and read the threads without posting, as a way of seeking out anonymous guidance for themselves or for someone they know. It is an open forum and serves more than those who actively participate.

The politics and other controversies forum is aimed at open discussion of all aspects of such horrible events, and the subject of grief quickly gets crushed in any discussion there, as the threads go in other directions. This is the only forum where those who seek advice on how to handle such grief can come and not be inundated with irrelevant and politicized issues.

I brought the topic forth because it is timely, and there are people here that are well equipped, better than most, to offer salient and powerful advice. As for their not being a specific immediate need within the forum members for consolation, I can't view that as a valid argument. I keep a first aid kit in my car even though I have no plan on being in a situation where I need it. I have health insurance even though I am relatively healthy. I considered how I would carry on if my wife died before me, and how she would carry on had I done so before her. Neither of us had the intent of dying at the time. Examining any potential situation and formulating solid responses beforehand is a hallmark of the intelligence of humanity.

The germ of my initial thought was that a group of psychologists and psychiatrists have laid claim to grief, and, if the media and schools are to be believed at all, created a niche market of grief counseling in school shootings and other deaths where children are involved. "Grief counseling will be available to all" is the standard line, and children and parents expected to make use of those resources.

While the intent of such interventions can be noble, they can also end up being counterproductive - by over-sensitizing children to death and causing them to view grief as a psychological "disease" that needs professional treatment. Given the financial limitations likely to be imposed upon such sessions, partial or inferior counseling is also a possibility.

Humanity has survived through centuries of horrible events and mass casualties and done so without such professional intervention. There is a wisdom in people. What the group of people here are singularly wise in and qualified to do is to suggest how grief can be handled - even in the confusion of group situations. People here can help show how to differentiate grief from outside forces, shock, or anger, or any of the other emotions that might be concurrent in the public eye, and point a sane and caring way through such a dark period. Unresolved grief is a destroyer of lives, sometimes fully as much as the initial deaths.

What I am requesting in the thread is an empathy for people who have to experience such losses, and considered words that may be of help.

Does that clarify the purpose of the thread for you? I recognize that it is slightly outside of the structured individual guidance you are used to seeing here.
this is a heartfelt thread on your part....thank you
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Old 02-24-2018, 03:32 PM
 
Location: SWFL
21,434 posts, read 18,150,188 times
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Yes. I understand your intent now. Let's hope no one needs it.
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Old 03-03-2018, 09:29 AM
 
3,964 posts, read 5,249,971 times
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I think that the biggest difference between losing a loved one in this way (a mass shooting) and losing a loved one as I did (disease) is the shock and suddenness of the loss. That same kind of shock may be felt when the loved one dies in an auto crash, but it seems to me that there is a difference. I would think that there would be an overwhelming anger at the event, at someone being "permitted" to take the life of one you love, and especially if the victim is young. I would speculate that there would be anger that could be spread in many directions: the shooter, the people who didn't see it coming, the people who enabled the event in some way, the people who didn't take action to try to prevent such events, even the parents of the shooter.

The experience of those left behind in these scenarios seems more complex than what I experienced. I had only grief; not anger, not regret, not guilt. Those emotions can complicate the grief process, I think, and make it more difficult to make peace in the long run. I am not saying that the grief of one who loses someone dear through illness is to be minimized. It is not appropriate or accurate to say that one type of loss is "worse" than the other. But it is very different, and I would think, more complicated.

One other thing. I don't think that everyone who loses a loved one through disease goes through the experience minus anger, guilt, and regret. I have met people before who were very angry at doctors, at the fact that something was missed, or who had burdens of guilt for something they did or didn't do. So I think these more complex feelings are a possibility with the slower death, but it seems that it would be a given with this kind of traumatic death.

I have no "advice" to give to anyone in this situation. If I knew a person who had experienced a loss in this violent, sudden way, I would want to simply be with them, to listen, to receive all their feelings with compassion. But I would also be on the lookout for signs that professional help was needed to sort through the very complex and intense feelings.
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Old 04-10-2018, 01:29 PM
 
Location: Mayacama Mtns in CA
14,523 posts, read 7,364,149 times
Reputation: 11302
Default Late to this thread, but....

Quote:
Originally Posted by cremebrulee View Post
I believe we're all different, and we all react to situations like this differently....no one has a definate answer (s) as to how to deal with it, or suggestions.

I can't even begin to imagine....a neighbor lost his child...in an accident....it was so very painful to watch...and try to help, but there is nothing you can do but be there for them and just allow them to talk, allow them the anger, frustration....and all the up and down emotions.

I heard it said, that you never truly get over it, it's always there....but it does get a bit easier with time....and I believe those with a strong faith (I'm not talking about religion) get thru it in a better way. But, there is nothing that you can say or do that will fix this for them. It never will be fixed...

also think it's important in time, no matter how long it's been to allow those parents to speak of their departed child, just as we would speak about our own who are still with us? Honestly, I can't speak for anyone, but I just don't believe it ever goes away....and it's just as important for those who have lost a child, to be able to remember and share happy moments....even if it ends up in a good cry.
Creme, this is very insightful, and thank you for saying it.

I knew for 14 months that my 34 yr old daughter (she had a devoted husband & 3 lovely daughters...) was most certainly going to depart this earth. You are so correct: it can never be fixed. Somehow it seems seriously wrong that even her world and friends can seemingly just go on without her.

I was, and am still devastated, but my experience of it has changed. Most of even my closest friends seldom if ever even mention her now, and this compounds my grief, somehow.

I know they think they are being 'considerate' but in these cases, whenever I get the chance I let them know that I need to know that they remember her and love her. And that there's never a time when it is not OK to mention her. And with some people, even this doesn't help. So I am more alone in my sorrow.

.
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Old 04-12-2018, 01:50 PM
 
Location: SW Florida
9,155 posts, read 6,335,940 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harry chickpea View Post
I wish I were more sure of that. I guess that many people can simply dismiss the coverage, not watch, read, or listen to it, and in general avoid the drama. Others may not be easily able to, and the coverage and follow-ups could feel like picking at a scab or an intrusion of privacy. I guess I'm thinking more along the lines that media and outside public participation in any analysis or debate interfere with the grieving process.

Would you counsel the grieving to stay away from media? Is there a way that public needs and desires can be balanced against the needs of the individuals? It almost seems that fleeing the scene for a month or more might be an option, even though it could be ungrounding. What would you do in such a situation? I have no consistent idea of how I might handle it.
That's exactly what I would do, ie, to suggest to the grieving individuals to avoid the news media, as much as possible. Their loss is too personal, a grievous wound too fresh, to allow it to be the subject of the news media's entertainment and competition for ratings ( I'm sorry, I just have no respect for those media outlets that send reporters out to hound those who have lost loved ones in such a disaster, asking them, after such a loss "how do you feel...." I'm of the opinion that the public has no need to share such raw emotion of someone who's lost loved ones in disasters, accidents or anywhere else.

I do find I don't watch the endless coverage, breathlessly inane comments and speculations, as well as chasing after the victims and their loved ones carried out by the news media outlets in such settings. I think those victims and loved ones need their privacy. I do pray for them, but I have no need to know the details of each victim's loss, IMO spreading it all over via the news media is an appalling lack of regard for their privacy.

As for dealing with the aftermath of such a disaster, I can't say I'd know how to handle it either. Perhaps it would help to be able to meet, and share, with other victims/their families, perhaps with the common ground in the disaster setting, there would be support in the shared shock, grief, and everything else that will follow.

As for the grief itself, IMO the way people grieve, how long it takes to get through each stage of grief, put the loss in perspective and go on with one's own life is as individual as the persons going through the process. We're all different. I'd hope I'd just be there for such a person, and be able to provide the support they need, in the way they want it and can best use it- they'd have to take the lead and provide the cues to let me know what they need, if that's just a physical presence, if it's talking, being a sounding board, providing services as I can to help them get through each day, anticipating something they might need but didn't think about and getting that done, whatever it might be.

Just my thoughts..
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Old 04-13-2018, 04:54 AM
 
Location: Somewhere in northern Alabama
16,851 posts, read 51,316,975 times
Reputation: 27711
This article gives an overview of what some experience:


Bodies, blood, bullets: What Parkland survivors saw in ambushed classrooms - Sun Sentinel
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