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I went to the Dallas Gun show on Sunday and though we went mostly for the fun of it, I've been jonesing for a 9 mm since I entered upon thy fair US soil.
After goofing around at gun stores here and there, I've come to the conclusion (pending firing them) that, based on grip and how it fits my hand, my best bets are either a Sig with the Elite grips (I think it's called elite), most likely a P226, or a H&K P30 V3, which frankly, I'm beginning to want more, predominantly as it's ambidextrous and I'm left handed (and the wife is right handed).
At the gun show, I found a brand new P30 V3 DA/SA w/safety and two 15 round mags for sale for $770 out the door, I eventually ended up not getting it, mainly cause I haven't fired it yet and I couldn't be 100% sure it's a great fit for me, was this dumb? Looking at what they go for used, I'm beginning to get the feeling it wouldn't have been that much of a problem to get it regardless of what I paid, they seem to sell used for around the same price...
It overall looked great, being displayed it obviously got picked up a lot and there was a tiny little part of the slide at the very from that showed some wear, on the side it was put back down onto the table, but other than that it was in perfect condition from what I could tell.
So tell me gun folks, did I mess up or will I find it as cheap or cheaper elsewhere?
I'm also taking recommendations for a .22 plinker, right now the Ruger Mk. III has the winning bid, but feel free to come with other recommendations, I'm not going to spend much money on that though.
At the gun show, I found a brand new P30 V3 DA/SA w/safety and two 15 round mags for sale for $770 out the door,
I'm also taking recommendations for a .22 plinker, right now the Ruger Mk. III has the winning bid, but feel free to come with other recommendations, I'm not going to spend much money on that though.
That was a nice deal but I've got money it was be the last one you run across.
As for the MarkIII, Ruger owns the .22lr market hands down in my opinion! The Mark III is very accurate and reliable. My only gripe is field stripping a new one. It was by far the worst experience I ever had dealing with a firearm lol The Mark III out of the box is very tight and needs about 500rds or more through it in order to loosen it up...just a little lol
You know, if you are not yet handloading, a .22 pistol or revolver would probably be the place to start. By no means do you have to buy new, there are all sorts of excellent older ones at gun shows.
Not sure why you are Jonesing for a 9 either. It's a common European military caliber and unfortunately our own military left the far superior .45 ACP for it, but it's harder to get them to shoot well, and stopping power is highly dependant on an excellent expanding bullet.
While the .45, which has long been used as a target round, is easy to get to shoot well, as is a .22 BTW. If you pick up any good 1911 type .45 and a box of Match ammo, it will shoot better than you can, unless you are really good. A 9 is just harder to get to shoot, as the dimensions of the chamber and the round are not as well settled on as the .45.
The 1911 is a well thought out design, and there are plenty of smiths and aftermarket parts if you want a better, lighter trigger, better sights, or whatever. The technology of tuning them is well-known. The various 9's are sort of each a law to themselves, I'm not saying you can't tune them, but you may need to look around. That said a SIG or HK is a fine pistol, but I would go with a .40 S&W rather than a 9.
IMHO the main serious role of a big-bore handgun is personal defense, the .45 will do the job with any ammo you can get, a 9 with FMJ ammo is not that good a stopper.
If you buy an old Colt Woodsman .22, you won't regret the purchase, take decent care of it and if you buy it right, it will always be worth what you paid or more. The Ruger is good too, you can buy new or used with no regret.
Don't forget the old wheelgun - you can pick up a S&W or Colt DA revolver in .357, if in good nick accurate and easy to shoot well, if you don't yet handload you can shoot anything from 38 wadcutters on up to full house .357.
There will be more gun shows, no hurry.
Don't be dumb like me and wait to be robbed once before you buy a safe. You no doubt have cameras, jewelery, etc. enough to justify a safe anyway.
You know, if you are not yet handloading, a .22 pistol or revolver would probably be the place to start. By no means do you have to buy new, there are all sorts of excellent older ones at gun shows.
Not sure why you are Jonesing for a 9 either. It's a common European military caliber and unfortunately our own military left the far superior .45 ACP for it, but it's harder to get them to shoot well, and stopping power is highly dependant on an excellent expanding bullet.
While the .45, which has long been used as a target round, is easy to get to shoot well, as is a .22 BTW. If you pick up any good 1911 type .45 and a box of Match ammo, it will shoot better than you can, unless you are really good. A 9 is just harder to get to shoot, as the dimensions of the chamber and the round are not as well settled on as the .45.
The 1911 is a well thought out design, and there are plenty of smiths and aftermarket parts if you want a better, lighter trigger, better sights, or whatever. The technology of tuning them is well-known. The various 9's are sort of each a law to themselves, I'm not saying you can't tune them, but you may need to look around. That said a SIG or HK is a fine pistol, but I would go with a .40 S&W rather than a 9.
IMHO the main serious role of a big-bore handgun is personal defense, the .45 will do the job with any ammo you can get, a 9 with FMJ ammo is not that good a stopper.
If you buy an old Colt Woodsman .22, you won't regret the purchase, take decent care of it and if you buy it right, it will always be worth what you paid or more. The Ruger is good too, you can buy new or used with no regret.
Don't forget the old wheelgun - you can pick up a S&W or Colt DA revolver in .357, if in good nick accurate and easy to shoot well, if you don't yet handload you can shoot anything from 38 wadcutters on up to full house .357.
There will be more gun shows, no hurry.
Don't be dumb like me and wait to be robbed once before you buy a safe. You no doubt have cameras, jewelery, etc. enough to justify a safe anyway.
Well, I can afford to shoot the 9mm, I wouldn't have had the cash to use a .45 very often (ammo cost). Honestly, that's the main reason, I also like things that make bigger boom than a .22, thus a 9 as well, it'll mostly be a range pistol, so stopping power isn't the highest thing on my agenda and in any case there's plenty of "defense" ammo made for it if the need should arise.
I think the wife wants a .357 sometime in the future, so I'll let her buy that one.
But to sum up: .22 for blowing off 500-750 rounds at the time, 9mm for bigger holes and more bang, while still having relatively cheap range ammo.
Pretty good price, but nothing to beat yourself up over.
I'm not a fan of the MKIII... don't like Locks on my guns.
You should be able to find a Ruger MK2 under $200
Same with a Browning Buckmark.
I like the Browning Better, but have several of each.
Also, a used Woodsman or Huntsman is usually a little more, but worth it. (I have a couple of those also... price of a 'shooter' will be comparable to the MK3)
Something else to consider is a .22 conversion:
Hi Powers
C75's
Glocks
1911's etc
All have .22 conversions available.
The advantage is cheap muscle memory and the same feel.
As mentioned above, there are several conversion kits that will take a .45 and make it into a .22 for range plinking. You can buy serviceable, reliable .45's in your price range that will do both jobs you're looking for - and have something as a defensive weapon that will do the job more reliably (IMO) than the 9 mm. I own a number of defensive handguns - most are either .357 or .45's. I own *no* 9 mm handguns - and since I reload, it's easy enough to own pretty much any caliber and still shoot it economically.
As mentioned above, there are several conversion kits that will take a .45 and make it into a .22 for range plinking. You can buy serviceable, reliable .45's in your price range that will do both jobs you're looking for - and have something as a defensive weapon that will do the job more reliably (IMO) than the 9 mm. I own a number of defensive handguns - most are either .357 or .45's. I own *no* 9 mm handguns - and since I reload, it's easy enough to own pretty much any caliber and still shoot it economically.
I appreciate your reply, however, I'm not likely to get into reloading, I don't really need a defensive handgun and if at some point, I do I'm sure 16 rounds of hollow points will suffice, even if they are 9mm in diameter.
With todays ammo I would be more inclined toward .40 cal over the 9mm.
On .22's I like the old Ruger Single Six. They have recently released the new Single 10.
One of these days I will buy a Bearcat.
Viking, I suggest you go to a range where you can try the guns out - I mean if you just want to plink with a big bang, the 9 will do that OK, but assuming you can really shoot, I think you will find the 9 with cheap ammo frustrating, the inherent accuracy will not be there. Then try a .45 with some match ammo - you will see the difference. I think you will see that the accuracy you can get out of any decent .22, and to compare apples to apples let's assume a 4" barrel Ruger with fixed sights against whatever wonder-9 you want to put up against it - particularly if you put cheap ball ammo in the 9 your groups will be say 2X what the .22 is doing.
Find someone with a reloading setup who can show you how that's done, before you say you do or don't want to get involved. If you want to shoot centerfire pistol, revolver, and/or rifle for a relatively reasonable price, you may find handloading to be more satisfactory than going to cut-rate ammo. It's not for everybody, it takes attention to detail, and rigorous safety practices, good "operational dicipline" as we say in the nuke industry.
Although. Not all cheap ammo is low-quality. And if you happen to get some where the tolerances in the ammo match the tolerances well in your pistol, you will get certain lot numbers of cheap ammo that will group well in your pistol.
But like I said the 9 is not as well standardized in terms of chamber and bore dimensions as are rounds that are commonly used for target shooting. The commonly used 10" twist does not help the 9 either in terms of accuracy.
Ironically, usually the only way to get a 9 to shoot really well is by handloading. I shoot the 9 but in original Luger pistols, and I have a .30 Luger as well. The .30, partly because it does not have the very fast 10" twist of the 9, is easier to make shoot well. On a good day I can stay on a beer bottle (regular 12 oz bottle) say 4 shots out of 5 at 40 yards. The 9's will do about as well, but (I am shooting my own cast lead bullets) the 9s tend to lead a bit after about 50 rounds. That damn 10" twist again. Heavy bullet handloads in the 9, some subsonic, may group better, I'm overdue to dust them off and head for the range again. Unique powder seems to work well in most small pistol cartridges for me, it's a dirty burner but easy to get good accuracy. There are a lot of newer powders on the market that I have not tried yet.
Now, take my Series 70 Gold cup - with selected cast 200 grain bullets, 3.5 grains of Bullseye powder - it's been a while since shooting at paper but if it won't stay in 4" at 50 yards I would be surprised. For all practical purposes, you can say where-ever the bullet impacts, that's what the sights were pointing to when the hammer fell, and if it's a miss, the shooter is 99% of the reason.
Good judgment comes from experience, you can if you wish listen to the voice of experience from me and other seasoned shooters here. The alternative path is that experience comes from bad judgment, so a guy can go make his own mistakes and learn that way too.
If you buy a high quality 9 it should hold its value pretty well so will be good trade goods if you can't get it to shoot well enough to keep up with your growing skills. Even a cheap 9 will always have a ready market, like McDonalds, for reasons I don't understand, it remains popular...
I appreciate your reply, however, I'm not likely to get into reloading, I don't really need a defensive handgun and if at some point, I do I'm sure 16 rounds of hollow points will suffice, even if they are 9mm in diameter.
Thank you though.
No problem - and believe me when I say that I truly hope that you NEVER have need for a defensive handgun. If you ever do decide that it may be used for that, please do yourself a favor and make it at least a .40 cal. There's a reason that LEO's across the country went away from the 9mm platform.
As for reloading...it's certainly not for everyone. With 4 kids and myself shooting competition, reloading was a self-preservation thing years ago. Today, I find it relaxing, and enjoy the challenge of finding "sweet spots" with various loads. I reload .45 ammo for about 12-14 cents/round - that's less than $7/box.
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