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Old 05-21-2012, 05:04 AM
 
Location: southern california
55,237 posts, read 72,427,088 times
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no i disagree
the best ultimate home self defense weapon will be the lawyer u hire after u use that on that home invader.
and he better be very very good, i recommend an israeli model
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Old 05-21-2012, 06:36 AM
 
Location: East Texas, with the Clan of the Cave Bear
2,027 posts, read 4,157,737 times
Reputation: 2275
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huckleberry3911948 View Post
no i disagree
the best ultimate home self defense weapon will be the lawyer u hire after u use that on that home invader.
and he better be very very good, i recommend an israeli model

I'd think that would be very true in S. California!. Of course here in Texas I'd expect the county DA to look at the facts but if you were justified you won't need a lawyer. They don't even have to be inside your home here.
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Old 05-21-2012, 12:11 PM
 
29,988 posts, read 35,862,752 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post
Even an AK (especially with cheap chinese round - steel cores) is going to go hither and yon and the same for a .223! Even if you hit the evil doer you still stand a good chance of waking up the neighbors in the rudest manner.
See post #3 for my comments about the .308 round for "home defense".

I've not found accuracy problems with my Colts, Noveskes or Arsenal Arms (AK-47 variants). I also don't run cheap crap ammo through my firearms. Obviously, YMMV.
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Old 05-21-2012, 05:51 PM
 
Location: somewhere in the woods
16,886 posts, read 12,543,418 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post
Even an AK (especially with cheap chinese round - steel cores) is going to go hither and yon and the same for a .223! Even if you hit the evil doer you still stand a good chance of waking up the neighbors in the rudest manner.

only if you have a home that is not made with proper construction materials. I could fire my 308 with no problem and have zero chance of those rounds penetrating any wall in my home. they would go through the windows, but not the walls.
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Old 05-23-2012, 03:43 AM
 
4,101 posts, read 5,898,909 times
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I like guns but I wouldn't be interested in owning one of these. I've owned a bullpup AR and a Bullpup Shotgun (High Standard Model 10) and neither of them are all that usable after the new wears off. I have an AR 10 and a Springfield Squad Rifle, both in 308 and neither of them are any good for home defense, in my opinion. They will be fine if I want to go to the range and shoot at paper. I've come to the conclusion that a quality 22 long rifle would be hard to beat for just about any kind of shooting I might do. The ammo for them is cheap, and light weight, and easy to carry in volume. For home defense a short barreled shotgun would be hard to beat.
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Old 05-23-2012, 03:51 PM
 
30,752 posts, read 16,986,782 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huckleberry3911948 View Post
no i disagree
the best ultimate home self defense weapon will be the lawyer u hire after u use that on that home invader.
and he better be very very good, i recommend an israeli model
The entire point is to NOT leave a witness.....
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Old 05-23-2012, 04:44 PM
 
Location: Old Bellevue, WA
18,794 posts, read 13,586,491 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gungnir View Post
The ONE advantage a bullpup has is that it's shorter overall length, the disadvantages are:-
  • the chamber is right next to your cheek so any catastrophic failure can be far more devastating than a regular rifle.
  • The charging handle is often in a location where you need to dismount the rifle to charge
  • Since the trigger/selector controls are in the standard position, there are longer linkages needed for them to operate as a "standard" configuration does, this introduces more play in the controls, which can result in selectors being safe when not, or not when on safe, trigger breaks are often not as crisp.
  • The balance for me is wrong, I expect a rifles balance point to be around the mid-point between my front and rear and positions, with the exception of the FN2000 and P90 (SBR, the regular length was front heavy) I've never found one that did not have a balance point behind my dominant hand. Mag changes are also more difficult, since you have to dismount the rifle to change magazines effectively, with the magazine being behind your dominant hand.
  • depending on the rifles construction, since the magazine is the lowest point of most rifles, this can lead to the rifle not being able to be comfortably fired prone.
The do look cool though, and since the Kel-Tec is front ejection, there's no problem with firing offhand and getting hot brass in your eye (which is a problem with side ejection bullpups when you want to minimize your exposure).


On Kel-Tec not my fave company, while I have had little exposure to their products, its because every time I've thought maybe they've improved and tried one, it's been disappointing. I know that others have had some good experiences, which is why I'll occasionally give them another whirl.

On the RFB, while I personally can't confirm this, the reports I'm seeing on it require less than trivial jams (anything that actuating the charging handle won't fix) require a field strip, or some creativity, since the ejection port is too deep to get a finger in to try to lever any stuck spent casing from it (or you have a finger like an Eye-Eye), the other alternative is through the Mag Well, however that's not exactly the simplest of things either.

On a 308 for a self defense platform, nope, not unless the world has ended as we know it and others have covered those issues here.

If you want a short car/truck gun, why not just go pay the $200 tax and get an SBR? You don't need accuracy at range, if you've just plugged a guy in the head at 300 or more yards, trying to prove imminent fear of death or serious injury could be difficult in such an event.
The malfunction-drill issue seems to be the most substantive criticism of the Keltec RFB. But it's a criticism in theory only. Confirmation/denial would require extensive testing and comparison to other battle rifles.

I have been intriqued by the RFB since it first appeared, but haven't picked one up. It's unrivaled among rifles in this general class for size efficiency. Unlike most other bullpups, it's more ambi-friendly than its competition, not less. This proved to be a problem for bullpups like the Brit L85 and Steyr Aug. Even if ejection is reversible, it will be usable from one shoulder or the other, but not both. Not so with the RFB.
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Old 05-23-2012, 07:48 PM
 
169 posts, read 119,469 times
Reputation: 75
I own .308s as part of my equipment. NO, they aren't for "shooting paper" either. I work up in steps of adding more force as more is applied to me. I'm not reaching for the handgun in a rifle/shotgun fight. Fowget about it!! If my 5.7x28mm, 5.45x39mm, 5.56x45mm, 7.62x39mm ain't cuttin' the mustard....308 WIN is next. 30-06s AND .303 British back that up. One way or another, you won't win. You can go quietly or go THE HARD WAY!!
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Old 05-23-2012, 08:04 PM
 
169 posts, read 119,469 times
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Suppose you captured and trained some WILD wolves or 'yotes into killer attack mutts and brought them with ya to help...I gotta .17HMR a "Johnny Feel Good" and a six pack to celebrate after for them too!
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Old 05-23-2012, 09:09 PM
 
69 posts, read 148,315 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister Miaugie View Post
I've never seen anything like it, what disadvantages does it have over the AR/G3/FAL platforms. It's over all length is 26.1 inches and barrel length of 18 inches. It's seems like it's very practical when your in a vehicle or within a cramped space. My thoughts of this weapon is that it is amazing and innovative. What your thoughts on this?
Heres a pic of it for a comparison, it's on top of the FAL.


Heres it in action.

Kel-Tec .308 Bull-pup! - YouTube
I really like the .308, but it's not something I think about having for home defense. Maybe if I lived on top of a hill and had to repel invading marauders.... Bullpup style weapons are way cool.
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